Every Greek knows the concept of pizza and the word pizza comes from the Greek pita.
Romans always copying the Classical Greeks
(Turkish pide is also the bomb)
Letās also remember pizza existed before Garibaldi created what is now Italy.
The nationalist approach to Culinaria is so shallow.
Visit Philadelphia sometime (maybe after the pandemic restrictions High end and artisinal pizzas are booming here. Yes, they can be pricey, but they are definitely pizzas and not flatbreads. Even some top fine-dining chefs (i.e., Vetri) and restauranteurs (i.e., Starr) are in the game along with more niche producers like those at Nomad and Bedia, I suspect theyāll survive the pandemic as they easily converted to take out and/or delivery.
Interesting article but he & I part ways here: ābut I want to make pizzas I love, pizza thatās crispy and shareable and so hot it can burn the roof of your mouthā
Well, any pizza straight outta the oven will burn the roof of your mouth and no, I donāt bite into it when itās so hot it can burn the roof of your mouth. Cheese, because of the fat, is the most dangerous food to eat, burn-wise.
No. Iām saying that certain foods have such an association with a nationality that it wonāt feel the same when they move past that origin point. Pizza to me is exactly that.
Thereās a Cambodian guy in Queens who makes bagels. Theyāre probably great. But they have no association to the Polish Jews who brought it to the US. Iāve heard theyāre great bagels. But they arenāt Polish Jewish bagels.
About music, thatās a whole different discussion for a different board, but thereās a huge difference between actual folk music and a classical composer borrowing folk themes.
Maybe you, but out here in America that idea is (thankfully) endangered, if not yet extinct. How else would we get Korean tacos and Mexican pizza, to name just two now all american dishes?
And as for saying that my ideas are āthankfully endangered.ā I was simply standing up for a unique cultureās right not to be assimilated and pointing out that when an ethnic group does assimilate, something gets lost.
I was not saying that itās wrong for other people to borrow ideas, as my example of the Arabic pizza parlor showed. And Iām not against assimilation. But thereās two sides to assimilation.
Because those are hybrid dishes born of the intersection of cultures that make the US unique.
I appreciate tradition but look forward to new cuisines being born every day here.
Perhaps this is a West Coast bias on my part, to look forward rather than the past.
It could be we just donāt understand the point we are trying to make with one another.
Is he trying to bake Polish Jewish bagels? Do you go somewhere else for that type of bagel? Should all bagels be made the same way? Can they adapt?
I work in the music industry 40 plus years, so my analogy is rooted in knowing that musicians come from all walks of life, sharing music styles with one another whether they were born in that country of origin or not. The recipe is learning how. As for off topic, thankfully HO leaves room for analogyā¦which thrives on thousands of threads already.
But I am more than happy to stop contributing to this thread. I have learned a lot already.
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Iāve had JABWAH bagels and theyāre no good. (Just A Bun With A Hole). Essentially yes, all bagels are made the same way, or they stop being bagels. Itās not that itās so difficult, itās just that if you donāt realize youāll need to learn how, then youāre sure to get it wrong.
Seems to me youāre making my point for me. Itās a hybrid, not the original. And yes, I realize that Italian-American is as American as it is Italian. I dunno what I wrote that offended you - Iām all in favor of letting a thousand flowers bloom. Iām simply saying what I think is a fact: when no more Italian-Americans want to open a local pizza parlor, weāll have lost something.
Musically, you can argue that all music is music, but you canāt argue that all music is 12-bar blues. Bagels are as specific (or more) than 12-bar blues is.
Nothing offended me; my upbringing in the middle of the country and situation now bear no resemblance to yours, Iād imagine.
Pizza to me means school lunch and one of the original Pizza Huts so my entire experience is a hybrid I suppose.
Bagel is a method of making a kind of bread. If you donāt do that method, it isnāt a bagel anymore. Changing the method really does suddenly mean youāre making a different thing.
Different topic but same idea: You think youāre saying it should be possible to build a bike from leftover Harley parts, but thatās not what youāre saying. Youāre actually saying it should be possible to build a Yamaha from leftover Harley parts.