Knife Recommedation: What are some good $80-150 Western Style Chef's knives?

Not sure how often Eiron visits here, but Eiron and I are lean more toward the thinner and harder steel knives (more Japanese influenced knives).

So the disadvantage with the German steel is that it doesn’t hold the edge as well?

I’m not an “expert” sharpener, thus I’ve been too intimidated by the Japanese-style edged knives. If the German’s are “softer” they should be easier to sharpen?

you’re on the button. ‘softer’ is easier to sharpen.
and less prone to chipping out by accidental ‘abuse’
and less prone to micro chipping out as the edge fatigues.

people who wish to have razor sharp knives go with the harder steels - they are more trickier to sharpen - usually done on $4-$5,000 sets of water stones.

I bought my Wuesthofs in 1985, I use that (OMG!) grooved steel just about every trip out of the block, free hand sharpened on a $20 Sears tri-stone for 30 years, moved to a Edge-Pro (highly recommended) - and they effortlessly cut anything I’m looking to slice&dice - and the 240 slicer works positive wonders at skin removal on fish fillets.

bottom line: it is just a question of how fanatically one wishes to be about “sharp” - in the home kitchen there is sharp and there is sharp beyond any real need.

just my opinion.

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:slight_smile: Well, I think we will have to disagree with a few things here, but many of these are very subjective. However, one thing more objective, I like to engage is the $4-5,000 set of water stones. I think there are people who do that, but I think that is a very very small minority. People in Japan use these harder steel knives, but they don’t spend even $100 on stones. For most people, a Tojiro DP (VG-10) is considered very high quality and it is as good as they will ever need, and that is a $50 knife. Why would anyone spend $4000 on stones to keep up a $50 knife?

I would say most people spend about $20-50 on waterstones, and some people may spend upward to $500 (that is 5 very high quality $100 stones if you think about it), but it is very rare for people to spend more than $500 US dollar.

I think the $4000-$5000 budget is real, but a very extreme case. Kind of like some people spend thousands of dollar to decorate to pimp up their cars… True, but that is a very small population.

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hyperbole is everywhere; I dragged some over here.

and there is a small but often very loud group of people who want to shave with their kitchen knives…

I don’t even shave in the kitchen, much less with a 10" chef razor.

Chem’s correct, we both prefer harder/thinner Japanese knives (& this is the style I make). I think they offer better features for the money over the most popular German cutlery.

However, the Victorinox knives I mentioned are both thinner and softer! So, you get the improved cutting function of thin, hard knives, but the easier sharpening of thick, soft knives. (Keep in mind that “hard” vs “soft” is not a huge distance when it comes to these better-made knives.) And you’ll get this better performance for less than you would on comparable German knives.

I prefer the feel & balance of the Victorinox Rosewood line, but the actual steel blades should be the same among most of their stamped lines. The other feature I dislike on a typical forged German knife is the full bolster at the heel of the blade. IMO, it adds no value to any knife’s functionality, & only gets in the way of maintaining your knife. So I prefer my knives without full bolsters.

If you’re cutting on an actual wood cutting board, and you’re using appropriate (light) cutting pressure, I’ve found that softer/thinner knives have an exceptionally long edge life. A $20-$30 waterstone will resharpen it quickly, & your friends will then be afraid to use it. :slight_smile:

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Hi Eiron,

I just bought a Ken Onion Rain 9" slicer.

Seems to be a stamped knife somewhat like Victorinox. The video recommends honing.

Where does Ken Onion Rain fit in your thinking?

Ray

I have a forged Victorinox 10" which I bought at Stoddard’s when David was still at the CH mall. It’s sharp and easy to keep that way and I like the upswept handle–I find most straight handles to be poorly designed for the pinch grip. It’s sweet and I should probably get another one, as well as an 8" since they make one of the few 8" knives that has a shape I like.

http://www.swissarmy.com/us/en/Products/Cutlery/Chef's-Knives/Grand-MaĂŽtre-Forged-Chef's-Knife-25-cm/p/7.7403.25G

Hi Ray,

I don’t have any experience with Rain knives, Carpenter’s BDZ1 steel, or Chef Works.
Without actually seeing one in person, my guess is that “rain pattern” is stamped into the blades, but that wouldn’t necessarily make it a ‘stamped’ knife. Why do you feel that it’s a stamped knife? Also, while Carpenter says it can be hardened into the low 60s, I didn’t find any reference to hardness of the Rain knives.

Obviously, Ken’s got a phenomenal reputation & could use whatever steel (& manufacturer) he wanted, so there’s no way you could go wrong here. But you’re the one with the knife. :slight_smile: What do you think of it? Is it thin enough? How much does it flex? How does it compare to other, similar knives that you own? What do you think of the handle? How about the balance?

Hi Eiron,

I bought this Ken Onion Rain slicer for several reasons–one was just to try out his ergonomic approach.

So far, I’m delighted–especially with the handle and the ergonomics. I’ve read somewhere that it’s stamped–it reminds me a little bit of the 7" Victorinox rosewood butcher knife I own. It does have a reasonably thin blade, sharpened to a Japanese 15 degrees, with the rough textured rain pattern shedding vegetable material effectively (carrots, cucumbers, celery). It’s quite rigid, but balances nicely where handle and blade come together, requires the natural pinch grip push-pull type of movement illustrated in the video. I haven’t tested it out enough yet to give a detailed review. So far, it seems to nestle somewhere between the European and Japanese knives I own: but different (in a nice way).

Ray

Ah, Cherry Hill Mall (I googled), right? For a moment, I was like… what Chowhound mall?

More likely, it’s the Chestnut Hill Mall.

Yep, Chestnut Hill. I was a much more frequent visitor while he was there–even though the new store is closer to me and I drive by a few blocks from it most weeks. :frowning:

I didn’t even know there was a new store. I thought that Stoddard’s had just disappeared.

Hi KWagle,

That’s a nice looking knife, too. (Different from the Rain, but also nice-looking.) It’s bigger than I usually use. How’s the balance on it? How’s the thickness compared to the traditional German knife brands? (Henckels, Wustof, Messermeister)

Last I knew, Stoddards has moved to 360 Watertown St in Newton. They’re sharing the space with some old-fashioned shaving tool shop whose name I can’t remember.

It’s a 10" which is my preferred size. The balance seems fine to me, but I’m no expert on that. I think it’s significantly thinner than Henckels & Wusthof knives. One of the major chains (Macy’s maybe) had these n stock a few years ago, it’s worth trying one. I really like it.

Oh yeah, ORourkes…the jackass didn’t care enough about his own business to insure it, and found a bunch of rubes to throw money at him. I may start a go-fund-me so I can buy a Kramer

Thanks much for the input. Decision made: Wustof Classic Ikon.

No, I was talking about Krust.

Wusthof Classic Ikon actually has a harder steel than most other German knives. Initially, it was launched as the harder steel knives among the entire Wusthof lineup.

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