Not sure how often Eiron visits here, but Eiron and I are lean more toward the thinner and harder steel knives (more Japanese influenced knives).
So the disadvantage with the German steel is that it doesnât hold the edge as well?
Iâm not an âexpertâ sharpener, thus Iâve been too intimidated by the Japanese-style edged knives. If the Germanâs are âsofterâ they should be easier to sharpen?
youâre on the button. âsofterâ is easier to sharpen.
and less prone to chipping out by accidental âabuseâ
and less prone to micro chipping out as the edge fatigues.
people who wish to have razor sharp knives go with the harder steels - they are more trickier to sharpen - usually done on $4-$5,000 sets of water stones.
I bought my Wuesthofs in 1985, I use that (OMG!) grooved steel just about every trip out of the block, free hand sharpened on a $20 Sears tri-stone for 30 years, moved to a Edge-Pro (highly recommended) - and they effortlessly cut anything Iâm looking to slice&dice - and the 240 slicer works positive wonders at skin removal on fish fillets.
bottom line: it is just a question of how fanatically one wishes to be about âsharpâ - in the home kitchen there is sharp and there is sharp beyond any real need.
just my opinion.
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Well, I think we will have to disagree with a few things here, but many of these are very subjective. However, one thing more objective, I like to engage is the $4-5,000 set of water stones. I think there are people who do that, but I think that is a very very small minority. People in Japan use these harder steel knives, but they donât spend even $100 on stones. For most people, a Tojiro DP (VG-10) is considered very high quality and it is as good as they will ever need, and that is a $50 knife. Why would anyone spend $4000 on stones to keep up a $50 knife?
http://www.amazon.com/Tojiro-DP-Gyutou-8-2-21cm/dp/B000UAPQGS
I would say most people spend about $20-50 on waterstones, and some people may spend upward to $500 (that is 5 very high quality $100 stones if you think about it), but it is very rare for people to spend more than $500 US dollar.
I think the $4000-$5000 budget is real, but a very extreme case. Kind of like some people spend thousands of dollar to decorate to pimp up their cars⌠True, but that is a very small population.
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hyperbole is everywhere; I dragged some over here.
and there is a small but often very loud group of people who want to shave with their kitchen knivesâŚ
I donât even shave in the kitchen, much less with a 10" chef razor.
Chemâs correct, we both prefer harder/thinner Japanese knives (& this is the style I make). I think they offer better features for the money over the most popular German cutlery.
However, the Victorinox knives I mentioned are both thinner and softer! So, you get the improved cutting function of thin, hard knives, but the easier sharpening of thick, soft knives. (Keep in mind that âhardâ vs âsoftâ is not a huge distance when it comes to these better-made knives.) And youâll get this better performance for less than you would on comparable German knives.
I prefer the feel & balance of the Victorinox Rosewood line, but the actual steel blades should be the same among most of their stamped lines. The other feature I dislike on a typical forged German knife is the full bolster at the heel of the blade. IMO, it adds no value to any knifeâs functionality, & only gets in the way of maintaining your knife. So I prefer my knives without full bolsters.
If youâre cutting on an actual wood cutting board, and youâre using appropriate (light) cutting pressure, Iâve found that softer/thinner knives have an exceptionally long edge life. A $20-$30 waterstone will resharpen it quickly, & your friends will then be afraid to use it. 
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Hi Eiron,
I just bought a Ken Onion Rain 9" slicer.
Seems to be a stamped knife somewhat like Victorinox. The video recommends honing.
Where does Ken Onion Rain fit in your thinking?
Ray
I have a forged Victorinox 10" which I bought at Stoddardâs when David was still at the CH mall. Itâs sharp and easy to keep that way and I like the upswept handleâI find most straight handles to be poorly designed for the pinch grip. Itâs sweet and I should probably get another one, as well as an 8" since they make one of the few 8" knives that has a shape I like.
Hi Ray,
I donât have any experience with Rain knives, Carpenterâs BDZ1 steel, or Chef Works.
Without actually seeing one in person, my guess is that ârain patternâ is stamped into the blades, but that wouldnât necessarily make it a âstampedâ knife. Why do you feel that itâs a stamped knife? Also, while Carpenter says it can be hardened into the low 60s, I didnât find any reference to hardness of the Rain knives.
Obviously, Kenâs got a phenomenal reputation & could use whatever steel (& manufacturer) he wanted, so thereâs no way you could go wrong here. But youâre the one with the knife. What do you think of it? Is it thin enough? How much does it flex? How does it compare to other, similar knives that you own? What do you think of the handle? How about the balance?
Hi Eiron,
I bought this Ken Onion Rain slicer for several reasonsâone was just to try out his ergonomic approach.
So far, Iâm delightedâespecially with the handle and the ergonomics. Iâve read somewhere that itâs stampedâit reminds me a little bit of the 7" Victorinox rosewood butcher knife I own. It does have a reasonably thin blade, sharpened to a Japanese 15 degrees, with the rough textured rain pattern shedding vegetable material effectively (carrots, cucumbers, celery). Itâs quite rigid, but balances nicely where handle and blade come together, requires the natural pinch grip push-pull type of movement illustrated in the video. I havenât tested it out enough yet to give a detailed review. So far, it seems to nestle somewhere between the European and Japanese knives I own: but different (in a nice way).
Ray
Ah, Cherry Hill Mall (I googled), right? For a moment, I was like⌠what Chowhound mall?
More likely, itâs the Chestnut Hill Mall.
Yep, Chestnut Hill. I was a much more frequent visitor while he was thereâeven though the new store is closer to me and I drive by a few blocks from it most weeks. 
I didnât even know there was a new store. I thought that Stoddardâs had just disappeared.
Hi KWagle,
Thatâs a nice looking knife, too. (Different from the Rain, but also nice-looking.) Itâs bigger than I usually use. Howâs the balance on it? Howâs the thickness compared to the traditional German knife brands? (Henckels, Wustof, Messermeister)
Last I knew, Stoddards has moved to 360 Watertown St in Newton. Theyâre sharing the space with some old-fashioned shaving tool shop whose name I canât remember.
Itâs a 10" which is my preferred size. The balance seems fine to me, but Iâm no expert on that. I think itâs significantly thinner than Henckels & Wusthof knives. One of the major chains (Macyâs maybe) had these n stock a few years ago, itâs worth trying one. I really like it.
Oh yeah, ORourkesâŚthe jackass didnât care enough about his own business to insure it, and found a bunch of rubes to throw money at him. I may start a go-fund-me so I can buy a Kramer
Thanks much for the input. Decision made: Wustof Classic Ikon.
No, I was talking about Krust.
Wusthof Classic Ikon actually has a harder steel than most other German knives. Initially, it was launched as the harder steel knives among the entire Wusthof lineup.
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