Most authentic Thai in GTA

Regional Dining Discussions Ontario
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Yes, the two places i was going to try out of what was suggested were Mengrai Thai and nana as neither had bell peppers when checking out the pictures. Hopefully they fare better. If not, i have one that’s decent close by in oakville. I should’ve kept the wine unopened and try the curry first. Lol.

Kiin I’m skipping cause it seems more royal Thai cuisine, which is different from what I’m looking for. We have tried royal Thai cuisine in NYC (was really good and really cheap despite being in Manhattan in a pricy neighborhood so i know it’s possible to make good regular Thai with today’s pricing in GTA).

With expansion, there’s naturally a drop in quality as most would coast off of reputation (this is where competition from different owners making legit Thai curry would mitigate the drop off in food). It seems the drop was severe in Pai judging by the recommendations based on a handful of years ago. This is why mom and pop restaurants are probably better. I have a feeling chef Nuit has been spread out fairly thin to keep quality high

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Eat BKK, Si Lom, Maya Bay and Koh Lipe were started by the same person, Phanom Suksaen, aka Patrick.

https://kohlipe.ca

https://mayabay.ca/regular-menu/

Nana and Khao San Road are owned by the same person, and he is or was a part-owner at Favorites Thai BBQ.

Nuit’s husband’s family runs SukhoThai, as far as I understand.

Chef and Owner Meepan at Sala Thai

Chef Ko Chatsuda is the chef at Issan Der.

https://isaander.com/about/

Chef Aon at Jatujak

https://jatujak.ca/about-us/

Chef Mo at Imm Thai on College St

Thai Nyyom, a newish contender

………….

Interestingly, both Aon and Nuit were nurses in Thailand before marrying and moving to Canada. Nuit was still working as a nurse when she started cooking at Thai restaurants here in Toronto. I remember she was still working as a nurse when some Chowhounds started seeking out Nuit’s cooking 17 years ago.

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I walked right back to Pai today and showed them the picture and conveyed what had happened along with backstory. To their credit, they apologized, refunded me, and told me the picture is their red curry and that they made a mistake. They were nice enough to give me a green curry. Despite my asking them not to give me too much as just a taste would do so i can get a sense for it, they gave me a whole order’s worth (they also took out the bell peppers).

Definitely not from a paste in a can. But not the most complex either. I also understand why they can’t adjust the spice level cause it’s not as simple as adding hot oil or chili flakes but i wish their standard was spicier with more complexity. Best Thai curry I’ve had in North America was probably in Virginia near DC (there’s a lot of really good Thai places around that area). Pai’s is probably what I’d consider good enough to be considered a representation of Thai green curry but not quite there. Sripraphai is a little better still.

Having said that, we still don’t know why the shrimp on the massaman curry tasted grainy as they insist their shrimp is fresh and not frozen. Can only think we either were unlucky yesterday night or they cooked the heck out of those shrimp. lol

I’m now less frightened of trying the other spots.

Thank you very much for the background and details of these spots. Hope the quality and standards continue to grow!

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I have no idea what Thai food is like in Thailand. I have enjoyed Thai food in Toronto since somewhere in the late 80s or early 90s, when Wandee Young was cooking at the Bamboo and Thai Shan Inn was really good. I really Nana and Khao San Road. The two meals I’ve had from Pai have been very good, though I prefer the above two. I’ve enjoyed many a meal at Sorn Thai. Sala, SukhoThai, and Mong Kut Thai have all been pretty good. I haven’t been to Salad King in awhile, but it was a staple in my younger years (as was Bangkok Garden nearby). LaMoon Thai Cafe has some fun, very fusion-ish casual food.

I understand the wish to find food that is true to the source material. I really like Nashville hot chicken and would love to find a place in Toronto that actually does it. But it also makes sense that transplanted cooks and cuisines will adapt to and make use of what is best in their new locales. And eventually those adaptations can become what may be viewed as “authentic” years down the line.

So anyone finds a place they think is truly authentic, I’d be happy to try it and will probably enjoy it. However it might not change my enjoyment of many other less authentic, but still very tasty places.

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I absolutely understand where you’re coming from. But much like having Japanese food in Japan (in-laws live there) ruining my enjoyment of Japanese food here in general (good on the ol wallet), DC and Sripraphai in Queens from back in the day ruined me for Thai. lol

Best way to describe it is you can’t unsee something amazing that you saw. You only seek it out more if not available around you. Sites like these are very valuable in that sense where a community can share their findings. For that, i am grateful.

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Almost no fresh shrimp are available in Toronto. Servers are often misinformed.

I wouldn’t fault a Thai restaurant in Ontario for using frozen shrimp.

Toronto is too far from the source for a Thai restaurant charging $20 for a main to source fresh shrimp or prawns.

Apart from a few upscale Chinese restaurants in Richmond Hill, some upscale Japanese restaurants, Portuguese Chiado and Croatian Joso’s, I’m not aware of restaurants serving never frozen fresh shrimp in Toronto. They degrade too fast.

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Being of Japanese background and having been to Japan, I agree that it is difficult to compare Japanese restaurants here to what you can experience in Japan. There are a few places here that are more authentic by your definition - e.g., Kaiseki Yu-Zen Hashimoto, the various Japanese chains that have outposts. But I do enjoy food at other places that are much less authentic - they may be not as Japanese, but the flavours can still be good in their own right.

Plus, Japanese cuisine has no problem incorporating non-Japanese food and technique in all kinds of ways. Tempura is a good example of something that most people would now consider part of authentic Japanese food, but is really an adaptation of a Portuguese method for cooking seafood. Ramen may be seen as Japanese, but it had its origins from Chinese cuisine. And there are lots of great Japanese adaptations of European/North American dishes - cheesecake, pancakes, cream puffs, etc.

So if I am at a Japanese-ish restaurant and they serve me something that only bears a passing resemblance to the traditional dish, I don’t mind if it still is good in its own right. I do mind if the result is insipid, poorly executed, etc.

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I feel we’re comparing apples to oranges.

Yes, i am aware of the heavy Portuguese, Korean, Chinese, etc influence in Japanese culture despite some folks that push nihonjinron (this is true of almost every country). This is not to say the Japanese don’t have their own sense of culture, cause they most certainly do.

Those dishes you’re referring to that you and I enjoy here, i consider American food (in certain instances Canadian food). It’s like how the hamburger is American and not German, general tso’s chicken is American and not Chinese, chicken parm is American and not Italian, California/Alaska/dragon/etc rolls are North American and not Japanese . I enjoy each one of these dishes and others like it. All of these were created here for people here much like the New England clam chowder, NY pizza (overwhelming majority of Italians visiting from Italy go to Keste for pizza instead when visiting NYC), Philly Cheesesteak, Texan smoked brisket, tex-mex food (most people think this is Mexican food but it’s American food).

Similarly, I’ve heard from a Portuguese American friend that the word tempur in tempura means to fry in Portuguese but upon checking it, temperar means to season. It’s not Portuguese food though, it’s Japanese. The prep, the tentsuyu, what it’s eaten with, etc. It’s all Japanese food. Ramen also, is absolutely Japanese food to me (unless we’re considering pasta is Chinese as well?) and not Chinese. Chinese food don’t claim it. They claim the influence Chinese food had on it originally.

These variations we see here, it’s American food. I’ve made that distinction on a previous post in this chain somewhere, but when I see restaurants representing food from different places, i need to first figure out:

  1. is this North American food (Alaska roll, chicken parm, general tso, etc) or
  2. are they trying to present the food as how it is in the mother country (mama lee’s kitchen, wow restaurant, casalinga, din tai fung, etc)?

If the latter, then i assess how close they hit the mark as well as how good it is. If the former, i know which guilty pleasure I’m ordering. Side note: i will never understand why cream cheese in sushi…

I’m seeking the latter here and i distinguish that by asking for something authentic. Pai, without the bell peppers, is decent, but not great (specifically when it comes to their green curry). And for $25, not sure I’d be back as there’s a place out in oakville for half that price that i find to be more authentic (eggplants and the correct spice level but need to make sure they understand we won’t call later complaining the restaurant was trying to prove a point by somehow making it spicier than what people can eat…)

I find these discussions around authentic food happens more when the population density of folks from those countries in a place isn’t large enough to support really good authentic restaurants. It’s only once there’s critical mass of folks where we start seeing these places popping up, word getting out how good it is, and eventually being considered the go-to place for the general population that these discussions tend to fade somewhat. Having said that, I’m happy to convey what i mean and where I’m coming from.

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Understood. This explains why I’m always disappointed with shrimp at all the Korean places so far. Let’s hope we get a good jump in population density (along with proper infrastructure to support it) so that one day we can see good shrimp being viable for most restaurants here as well. Fingers crossed it happens in our lifetime!

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I agree there is a difference between a restaurant representing itself as serving authentic mother country food versus serving dishes that are clearly fusion or North American. I was stretching the point to say that I don’t find anything inherently wrong with something being not completely authentic. If a such-and-such cuisine restaurant would rather use fresh and local asparagus rather than a different-tasting but much-less available home country vegetable, then let’s see how the result tastes. Might be worse, might be fine, might be even better.

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It is possible to get fresh shrimp in Toronto as there is at least one closed-system shrimp farm here (Planet Shrimp). They are also one of the few sustainable shrimp options available. We’ve had them before at Honest Weight and took some home to cook that night. Most restaurants don’t seem to care about sustainable seafood, but if this industry grows, maybe more restaurants will feature local (and potentially fresh) shrimp instead of frozen non-sustainable options.

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‘Fresh’ shrimp (i.e. never frozen) are definitely available in Toronto. They are ‘farmed’ in Ontario. The Ontario Government authorized (‘approved’) this in 2014. I’ve had these several times (perhaps many, as not every restaurant reveals their source).
Having said that, they may still not be as ‘fresh’ as shrimp which are flash frozen at sea.
I do not know the cost (compared with ‘regular harvesting’).
Incidentally, I believe that ‘many’ fish are farmed - I recall reading that about half of the fish eaten worldwide is farmed - but cannot find a trustworthy source to confirm that.

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Some oldsters (like me) on this Board have been discussing topics like authenticity online for over 20 years.

I think I understand where you are coming from. Once you are at my old stage of life, you might see where I am coming from. Or you might not.

This type of topic where posters debate whether a food being served in Toronto, with different ingredients, imported ingredients, different terroir, people of another ethnic or cultural background preparing a dish, Thai by Thai chefs and not by Chinese, Mexican or Sri Lankan chefs, etc. becomes a repetitive and boring topic after it’s been discussed a dozen or 10 dozen times.

One of the BEST Thai restaurants in Toronto, is no longer is in business, because Torontonians were too cheap for the restaurant to stay afloat, since higher quality ingredients cost more money. This was before the rapid inflation of the past 3 years, that restaurant had an excellent Mexican chef, and the restaurant was owned by immigrants from Hong Kong. Maybe Toronto will eventually be ready to spend $75 per person on an excellent Thai meal, the way they are willing to spend money on French food, some upscale Japanese, some upscale Italian Italian restaurants. Ultimately, the people who live in or visit Toronto are the ones who determine which restaurants stay in business. Many restaurants alter their recipes , menus, service approach, to serve the Toronto market, to survive in a fickle business with tight margins that are getting tighter.

You are getting some thoughts from people who are Gen X (like me), Boomers, and Silent Gen (born before 1945).

Feel free to write your thoughts down about what you hope to find, and share what you like or find uninspired.

The beauty of Chowhound and HungryOnion is that they were and are Discussion Boards, where people share thoughts and perspectives.

The thing about Taste, is that there is no Accounting for it.

Who is the Arbiter of Authenticity?

Borders change, ingredients change, recipes change, what is considered authentic changes.

Opinions about taste and authenticity, and whether authenticity in Toronto matters, will vary depending on the poster’s outlook and experiences.

These topics are inherently subjective. I know which posters are on my wavelength, and which posters have interests which are different than mine.

Enjoy your food journey. :slight_smile:

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This is great! I wish they’d share which restaurants use their sustainable and local shrimp so we can visit those restaurants. Would be a good marketing idea to get more restaurants to use them (vote with our dollars!)

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I understand but bell peppers have always tasted out of place for me for Thai curry. Also, I’m looking for places that would give nostalgia and comfort to a little home sickness for recent immigrants. That’s the food experience I’m looking for when i say authentic.

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You’re my generation… I’ve lived in NYC, Boston, Miami, Houston, NJ, Seoul, and now Toronto. I’ve seen all these places change (much larger population densities there). I’m sharing what has happened in the past and how and why they’ve shifted. I’m not as young as you’d think… And no, i don’t agree. Even if i weren’t the same age, it’s the varying perspectives and experiences one goes through, thinks about, and internalize that should count more? Especially if history (and topics) keep repeating itself cause different cities are at different stages and paths.

I for one, have not tired of the topic and believe it to be an important one in the bigger picture sense. It’s people’s culture.

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I know about Planet Shrimp.

I had a started a few
threads about sustainable shrimp on Chowhound, and 15 years ago, I tried to find dim sum made with sustainable shrimp. There is a sustainable dim sum spot called Harmony in Mill Valley, CA, so I knew the concept worked somewhere.

At that time, I was only buying sustainable frozen shrimp for at at-home consumption, and I was cutting back on ordering shrimp because of the issues with the mangroves in SE Asia.

Of course, it is too expensive for a regular dim sum restaurant to switch to sustainable shrimp in Toronto, because our market has not been willing to pay for that quality on a large scale.

I also sat behind the owner of Planet Shrimp on the train to Toronto about 4 years ago.

I have only seen Planet Shrimp shrimp on one or 2 menus.

This is an interesting thread AQUACULTURE articles - Hakai Magazine and The Atlantic: What It Takes to Feed Billions of Farmed Fish Every Day - They’re usually just given ground-up fish. One company is exploring a more sustainable alternative: maggots.

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