I agree the Hazan recipe has too much tomato in it to align with what I consider a “classic” Bolognese. Certainly much more tomato than any Bolognese I had on my trip to Bologna. IMO it sort of straddles the line between Bolognese and an American-Style meat sauce. Delicious, but I prefer a less tomato-forward recipe when I want Bolognese (using just a couple of tablespoons of tomato paste per pound of meat and no fresh or canned tomatoes).
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I agree that a fresh tomato sauce is a thing of beauty. But did you make a meat sauce with them?
My point was that the meat flavor and long simmering defeats the purpose of the fresh tomato taste.
Of course, everyone’s preference is different.
I once mentioned milk and white wine in Bolognese to a foodie Italian colleague, and he looked at me like I had two heads. Like you point out – there’s no consensus.
Yup. Meat sauce is delish, as is bolognese. Each have their place.
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There’s actually a research paper that recounts the historical record of bolognese sauce. The first published recipe that used bolognese in the title has no tomatoes and cream is only an option along with dried mushrooms, truffles and chicken liver. So a meat sauce in broth. There are others that use tomatoes and no milk or cream. The recipe of Bologna chamber uses as much tomato as milk and cream. So what is the “correct” recipe? Everything and nothing. Bolognese is just as much a variable recipe for a meat sauce to dress pasta as any Italian American version. Eat what you like.
Here’s a link to the paper.
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How did it turn out?
From which part of Italy was your colleague - on my experience people from the north of Italy use dairy (tenderizing) and wine (acidity) in their ragu bolognese where as people from the south (everything from Roma and south) never use those two ingredients and still call it ragu bolognese
Italian or Italian American?
The Giuliano Hazan link above from @Aubergine has an interesting explanation of the evolution of Italian American cuisine in the US, positing that dishes from other regions were reinterpreted by Southern Italian immigrants who had never experienced the original dish.
So, Italian American lasagna vs Italian, bolognese vs meat sauce also called bolognese, and so on.
Food pathways are so interesting.
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I was gonna say — likely someone from the South, since Italy is so highly regional in its cooking approaches.
I never serve meatless sauce. After the sauce is done, in go raw meatballs for about another 1 1/2 hours. Since I don’t care for the taste of fresh tomatoes (or canned in winter) the lengthy cooking process suits me just fine.
Maybe then the traditional recipe for bolognese with just a smidgen of tomato product would be more to your liking, then?
Why make tomato sauce as a base if you don’t actually like tomatoes?
It turned out really well but I didn’t take any photos.
I’ll definitely make the Mortadellahead recipe again.
I had a meatball and sauce sandwich for lunch today.
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What can I say. I like ketchup, chili and tortilla soup too.
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I am usually amused by long known, famous recipes for which some authority has pronounced that it must be made in a very specific way. The ones that come readily to mind, along with ragu Bolognese, are Saltimbocca alla Romana and Neapolitan pizza. While I have greatly enjoyed such things made as prescribed, I invariably prefer dishes that took the basic concept and tweaked it, sometimes a little and sometimes a lot. In the end I would rather say I had the most incredibly wonderful (insert dish) than that I had enjoyed that dish made exactly as prescribed.
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I would distinguish between those - Neapolitan pizza has a DOC certification and is part of VPN which makes sense as it a very specific style of pizza made in very specific way (doesn’t mean that other pizza styles can’t be also very tasty but they are made quite differently) whereas ragu bolognese and saltimbocca don’t have these certifications
Flavor over authenticity. Any day.
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I am aware of the certification, and there absolutely is a distinction. I like pizza that qualifies. However, in the end, even though it has structure, rigor, specificity, etc., DOC is just another body pronouncing “This is it.” I like using both DOC and DOP, but am not sure that those who did not meet or never sought either cannot rival them.
They can definitely rival them but there are dishes or ingredients where I find it very helpful when they have a distinct certification to ensure that they meet certain standards. If I want specifically eat a Neapolitan pizza I don’t want a crispy bottom or a strong sourdough flavor (but that doesn’t mean those styles can’t be equally good or better tasting)
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Absolutely. An interesting thing about DOP is the controversy over Cento San Marzanos. I do not know the details. All I know is I like them better than others that are DOP.
The class action law suit was dismissed but it is a bit understanding in general that people are more careful to read labels as San Marzanos in general can be sold for a higher price point and there are a few other brands who write San Marzanos on their cans but if you read the much smaller print somewhere else on the can it states that their tomatoes are just like San Marzanos but actually sometimes not even from Italy
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