Look I’m not italian, but my good friends mother is italian and I know two italian chefs, one originally from Rome and the other originally from Sicilly.
Of course he doesn’t know, that 95% of all italians prefer dry pasta, and if they in fact do, whether it’s out of convenience or because of the al dente mouth feel - neither do I and neither do you.
I just know, that the people I know, which have direct italian relations tend to have a clear preference for well produced dry pasta over fresh pasta.
Not the cheap dry pasta, but the dry high quality pasta, that has been made with quality flour and in quality dry pasta production plants with the proper long drying time.
I’m not saying fresh pasta can’t be delicious, it most certainly can and is - well made industrially produced dry pasta just have that edge in the al dente department, that you can’t get from even dried fresh pasta.
I have a lot of Italian friends in different parts of Italy, e.g. Bologna, Roma, Sicily, Triest erc. and they would clearly disagree that it is all about al dente when talking about pasta. If you make a classic ragu balognese (with dairy as it is classical made) many Italians for example tend to prefer fresh pasta. In general, fresh pasta is often preferred in Italy when used with cream/dairy based sauces, whereas dried pasta is more used with oil-based sauces.
I think we need to back off from either/or and concede that what suits each person in each preparation takes trump. I frequently bring up the thousands of Italian nonnas out there, each with generations of history and preference/prejudice regarding ingredients and process. None is wrong.
Well good for you, that you have a lot of italian friends - and I can hear they have excellent taste as many italians tend to have.
This leads me right back to my argument, which I can’t really backup other than it seems to be pure logic and you confirm that in your post here.
‘The term Al dente pasta is only used when addressing the classic Italian pasta dishes made in a frying pan or a sauter pan’
I should probably have rephrased it more like: “The term al dente is more relevant in oil based dryer pasta dishes typically made in a sauter pan or a frying pan”
Well not only, but in most cases, the al dente mouth feel is best experienced in pasta dishes, where you tend to use more oil based sauces.
You don’t get the same al dente feel from the pasta, when you’re making a pasta dish with dairy products or where the pasta is partly or fully submerged in to some from of liquid - for instance a lasagna.
So I totally agree with your post, where you say this:
“If you make a classic ragu bolognese (with dairy as it is classical made) many Italians for example tend to prefer fresh pasta. In general, fresh pasta is often preferred in Italy when used with cream/dairy based sauces, whereas dried pasta is more used with oil-based sauces”
Final thoughts . Dried pasta cooked 3 minutes less than the prescribed direction on the package for al dente. I would toss in the pan with minimal condiments and a little pasta water . Flipping the pasta in the pan until done . Cooking over medium low heat until the water has dissolved and the sauce is adhering . Turn off the heat add a tablespoon of pasta water and the the best Parmigianino reggiono or pecorino to the pan . Toss one more time and plate.
For fresh pasta like pappardelle . I would cook until soft maybe 2 minutes . Then toss very gentlely with a wild boar ragu with a small amount of Parmigianino reggiono grated on top .
Thanks for clarifying - this is indeed what I’d just call finishing the sauce in the pan together with the pasta. Typically this is done for quick pasta sauces, where a few ingredients are being combined, and where the ingredients often do not need a lot of time to cook or develop flavour.
It would be different if one were to finish pasta in a sauce that has been simmering on a stove for over an hour. You’d still add the pasta to the pan with the sauce in it (at least I’d) but there won’t be any ‘extra’ sauteing.
In general I’d agree with most of what you’re saying, but the world of pasta is so broad that it is difficult to make definite statements like ‘Italians prefer al dente’ or ‘dry pasta is better than fresh’. It really depends on how you will eat your pasta and your personal preference.
For example I also sometimes add pasta to soups: after reheating, the pasta will be the opposite of al dente, very soft, and I still love it. Also, some pasta shapes I will only buy dried and never make myself, e.g. spaghetti. Usually spaghetti is for quick weekday meals, plus if I need to make time to make fresh pasta I’d rather make something special like stuffed tortelli.
Fresh pasta is much better than dried pasta, and the reason is simple. Pasta is made by mixing water and flour. When fresh pasta is made, the water and flour is mixed and then the two sets of ingredients are kneaded together. This kneading action causes air bubbles to form, and when it is cooked, the air bubbles expand and the pasta gets its great texture. Dried pasta does not have air bubbles, and the texture is very smooth. So, if you have the time, try making fresh pasta at home. Fresh pasta cooks faster than dried pasta, and it tastes great!
My go to Italian boxed pasta at home is Dececco brand tubetti. I don’t make fresh pasta at home, but I do have to say that the only restaurant pasta I’ve had that made me swoon was fresh.
For Asian cuisine, I always say that the noodles are the first thing to suffer once you get back to the US. In Lanzhou, I saw two men carrying an enormous basket of fresh noodles between them, early in the morning walking down the street. Then I saw others. Lanzhou ‘probably’ doesn’t translate as City of Noodles, but it should.
Another important note about Asian noodles: If they are not in soup, they have the other ingredients ladled on top and you mix yourself after being served, not sauteed in a pan.
It’s my preference to not mix thoroughly in order to get some very different tastes from one bite to another. Or sometimes I just want to taste the noodles, they can be that good.
I respect your opinion, but the air bubbles you talk about is not as important as having pasta with true al dente texture to my taste pallet.
Also it’s incorrect to say dry pasta is very smooth.
Most cheap dry pasta is very smooth. You should try to expand your horizon a bit and buy some of the Italian artisan made dry pasta.
Once the bronze die is used you get the dry pasta, which are called ‘bronze’ and this dry pasta is anything but smooth and far less smooth than even the freshest home made pasta.
Therefore I find great artisan made dry pasta far superior to fresh made pasta in most pasta dishes.
I have made only about 5-7 attempts at home made pasta. The best for my tastes was todays pasta with 100% durum wheat, water and salt. Other times I have tried with eggs and they never were quite as nice I had hoped, but todays pasta tasted pretty good. Even my soon to be 7 year old son approved it, which is a definite honest positive feedback. Experiments will continue, next time lasagna.
From the stores I buy dry pasta 39/40 times or so.
If you have a stand mixer, this recipe has always come out great. If you want to flavor it with spinach or other veggies, cut back on the eggs/water so you can add a puree and a touch of EVOO for the same liquid weights.
I use a 00 flour and a semolina flour in a ratio of 3:1 for my home made fresh pasta, if I want a slightly heftier pasta and if I want the pasta more airy and light I use a ratio of 5:1 00 flour to semolina flour.
I’ve tried kneading it by hand, and it’s good fun but I now mostly use my FP to knead the pasta dough.
I find that my Magimix FP will mix the dough faster than my Anskarrum stand mixer.
But mixing and kneading it by hand gives me the best feel for the dough, but I’m getting pretty good with the FP I must say.
Do you sometimes also add eggs to your fresh pasta dough ? I do from time to time. But I think I prefer it without eggs in the dough.
I also seem to like it better without eggs. My home made pasta has been pretty heavy on the eggs so far, until today when I made it without :). More accustomed to the taste without it I guess. Inhave of course bought dry egg pasta before, but dont think they were anywhere near as eggy as mine.
I now used Finnish durum wheat flour that has a pasta recipe printed on it, somewhat fine ground. Semolina would be a bit coarser it seems, I haven’t tried it yet. Will keep an eye on it at the markets!
Claus, do I now need a food processor as I don’t yet have one? Is it another rabbit hole?
It depends… food processors don’t knead, they cut. If you need to knead your dough, they are a poor choice over a mixer with a dough hook (and you will need to knead a lot by hand). Kneading the dough provides more elasticity, and the right level of gluten development which is key to great fresh pastas.
If you need to “cut” things like cold butter into flour for biscuits and pastry, an FP is a quicker, more efficient choice over a mixer, but both will get the job done.
I like having a FP but you shouldn’t buy one just to make pasta; I don’t use one to make Hazan’s pasta dough. Her recipe is all all-purpose flour; I do half zero zero. I wrap in plastic wrap and rest on the counter an hour. I love using pasta attachment for Kitchenaid mixer, so easy.
The best way to knead a dough is by hand in my view, but it’s incorrect to say that all food processor cuts the dough, unless you just use the standard cutter the FP comes with.
My Magimix 5200 XL comes with an array of different attachments and I use the one for whisking eggs and that pushes the ingredients for the dough around and doesn’t cut the dough, it pushes it around inside until the dough comes together and then pushes the dough lump around until it’s complete, which I most certainly would call kneading.
You can do the same with your stand mixer, I just happen to feel my Anskarrum stand mixer is a bit too large for the rather small size fresh pasta doughs I’m normally making, and I find my Magimix 5200 XL does an equally great kneading job as the stand mixer or even better job for the rather small doughs.
