Why don’t we ask Franz to take a FLIR shot of a CI pan on the Mirage Pro?
Chem and Kaleo are right. Furthermore, anyone who wants to know what the heating pattern looks like for carbon steel or cast iron can see an example at: https://www.centurylife.org/cookware-even-heating-rankings-butane-propane-natural-gas-etc/ (That is a seasoned carbon steel pan on gas, but a Mirage Pro delivers similar circle. Except that the induction circle is smaller and sharper compared to gas. Gas, by its very nature, is more diffuse and heats more evenly than an equivalent-Btu induction burner.)
That is not to say you can’t smooth out the temperature by playing games (e.g., moving the pan around to try to spread the heat around manually, or preheating it much more slowly). But no matter how slowly you preheat it, it will still be somewhat uneven because it’s just not that good of a thermal conductor. So the best solution if you are ok with the inefficient use of energy, and the wait, is to preheat it in an oven. Next best might be using it on a wood stove or a large campfire because those give wide plumes of hot gases which are rather even heating.
I bet that 11’ Crepe pan is probably quite a bit thinner than your average clunker lodge. I am sure the Staub Crepe must heat up faster.
Well the nice thing I have always liked about Cast Iron is it lends itself well to being shaped. So new computer aided designing techniques probably work well with the material. There are some really cool shaped CI pans that are very functional. Personally I like when they thin out the thickness a bit and maybe stick a wood handle on it or something.
The reason I like my French copper with the CI handles is first of all the shape. The handle has the iconic French high angle rake with a nice curve. I like the way French cookware handles in general. Sometimes you have to reach up a little with the steep angle, but I am used to it. CI allows the traditional French style handle better sometimes than other materials like Stainless Steel. Falk for instance if you look and the SS handle pieces and the CI the geometry is quite different. Mauviel stays a little more consistant with different material angles.
I think a lot of US consumers don’t think there are many options except good ole pedestrian Lodge when it comes to CI. I have discovered some really nice CI pieces, mostly mfg’d by quality companies from Europe and Japan. It’s nice to see a tradition of mfg in the USA. Some of these companies have hit the CI sweet spot for me on certain models, like a egg pan, a well designed fry pan or a crepe pan. Still not going to pay top dollar for CI but will pay some for a need based oft used pan that funtions well despite the drawbacks of CI. Lets remember the material does have it’s pros too.
Kaleo,
I have cooking experiences and IR measurements over time with my Staub ECI that give me a real world practical foundation for my speculation. I don’t make the same inferences that you make from Franz’s demonstrations.
Ray
Absolutely, Ross.
I can do 4 slices of french toast in a few minutes, sprinkling some cinnamon and nutmeg on each slice before I turn it over.
Ray
Ray, many of us have cooking experiences with Staub and other CI that give us “real world” practical foundations–and they’re not speculative.
You just live in a different world.
Aloha,
Kaleo
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Kaleo,
My observations and IR measurements were very specific to a Staub 11" Crepe pan and a Mirage Pro. An example I gave to Ross was four slices of french toast. That’s my world, and the basis for my speculation about this new pan…
Ray
Hey Franz,
I know you excluded Disk bottom skillets because of temperature discontinuities and therefore possible uneven heating, but I would like to see disc bottom frypans included in your study. Specifically larger disc bottom pans where diameter won’t be as much of an issue on gas for scorching and sticking. I would like to see encapsulated disc bottom fry pans like the Fissler with the Cookstar base of course with SS and Anodized, and just regular disc bottom like the Sitram, Paderno GG, To see what kind of even heating numbers come up. Hopefully that is something that can still be measured accurately. It seems like the biggest factor is material, with copper ply and aluminum all putting up pretty similar numbers and CI doing what it does. So thats fine pretty through, but I am only seeing results for gas, Did you try to measure also on other heat sources?
First, about the thread derail into induction. Ray insinuated that I somehow only use my induction cookers for testing, which is blatantly wrong. I like and use induction for most of my cooking but do not overstate its benefits, nor did I say it’s impossible to use carbon steel/cast iron on induction (to the contrary). If someone finds that iron/steel works well for them on induction then I say more power to them, keep using it. Perhaps Ray is particularly skilled at preheating his pan or moving it around to compensate for any hotspotting.
That said, one can simply cook eggs on carbon steel/cast iron on any portable induction cooker, and one would notice the center of the pan cooking faster. Or if you deliberately burn eggs, it will burn first in that hotter middle area. Dave Arnold also has photos showing how induction burners spread heat poorly on cast iron: http://www.cookingissues.com/2010/02/16/heavy-metal-the-science-of-cast-iron-cooking/ And as noted sometimes by users of portable induction units, you can see a circular hotspot of boiling water on induction. The hotspot is more diffuse with gas and electric coil. But induction hotspots are more concentrated, so induction needs more help from the cookware to spread that heat around. This doesn’t mean you can’t use cast iron/carbon steel on induction, it just means it won’t heat as evenly and many people have observed this effect.
Second, to PST/Ross:
I actually do test disc bottom skillets, but only under Electric and not Gas: https://www.centurylife.org/cookware-even-heating-rankings-induction-and-electric/ That’s because testing on gas is trickier because it can superheat the non-disc part of the base and sidewalls. I’ve not published any CookStar disc base results because the only one I’ve tested so far was not flat-bottomed, which threw off measurements.
Complicating matters is how some discs cover almost all of the bottom and others are truncated, and the truncated ones get an unfair testing advantage because they get to keep most of their heat within the testing circle (with a huge temperature dropoff at the edges), whereas the larger-disc ones don’t (but don’t fall off a cliff near the edges, either). What I plan to do is to separate the two into different leagues (full disc vs. truncated disc). But I need more full disc results first.
As for higher end disc base brands like the ones you mentioned, I’ve already written reviews of them:
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Ray, there’s nothing special thermally about the crepe pan, and there’s really nothing special about the coil in the Mirage Pro that makes it less prone to hot-spotting than other induction hotplates. Maybe you’re using magic bread for your French toast.
It is a beautiful pan, though…
Aloha,
Kaleo
Hi Kaleo,
Philosophically, you may be right. Scientifically, we’ve got to get beyond demonstrations, with studies that could pass peer review. Practically, the philosophical “hot spot” you believe in hasn’t yet appeared at my kitchen. Maybe magic is afoot.
Ray
Ray, no one’s going to waste the effort on a peer-reviewed study just to prove you wrong on such a simple matter.
Why don’t you fund a study proving everyone else (Franz, me, Dave Arnold, everyone who’s done a scorchprint) wrong?
This is what the hotspot looks like.
Here’s the bottom of a pancake, showing the same pattern: 
Aloha,
Kaleo
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Ray, your one outlier experience does not trump everybody else’s, okay? n=1 is not statistically significant. You may demand peer reviewed studies from others, but you hypocritically don’t hold yourself to that standard, that’s for sure.
Every cookware has some hot spots. It is just that cast iron and carbon steel have more than copper and aluminum.
Franz,
My only speculation is that the new proposed pan would do quite well with induction in my kitchen, based upon my experiences.
Nothing you have done can possibly contradict that.
Your speculation is that you would find even more hot spots than with other cast iron pans using your demonstrations as a guide.
I’m not saying you wouldn’t.
We could both be right.
Ray
Hi Chem,
I didn’t say that one couldn’t demonstrate a hot spot with the new cast iron pan–or any other pan. I said that I doubted evidence of such a hot spot would appear if the cast iron pan were in any way to respond like my Staub Crepe pan–used as I use it.
Ray
Kaleo,
I’ve seen the scorchprint. It has almost no relevance to my claim. You’re looking for a scenario to detect inconsistencies in temperature transfer. You’ve found it.
I look for scenarios to produce 4 slices of nicely browned French toast. I’ve found one with my Staub and my induction unit.
Ray
Ray, I have repeatedly said that if it works for you, great, keep doing it, and perhaps you are especially talented at preheating or whatever it is you do with your pan.
Now, let’s get back to the original topic of this post.
I think they may well find a niche- the stuff is good looking, looks to be well made, and it may end up being the darling of the hipster set, or something. I might entertain buying some if I didn’t already have more cast iron than anybody needs
