Yes, we are effed thanks to Brexit


#1

Jay Rayner on what Brexit means for food in the U.K.

[https://www.theguardian.com/food/2018/sep/15/food-and-brexit-will-the-cupboard-be-bare-jay-rayner?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other]


(John Hartley) #2

You’ve just beaten me to posting that link.

Even Rees-Mogg, the arch Brextremist, has suggested that it’ll be 50 years before the UK could see any real benefit. Fifty years, FFS! By which time, the oldies who voted for it (I am an oldie but didnt) will be pushing up daisies.


(Jimmy ) #3

Might there be a trend here?


(John Hartley) #4

Interesting article, Jimmy. Thanks


#5

What a depressing read but thanks for posting it.


(Jimmy ) #6

“Even as the number of dairy farms shrinks, the milk supply continues to grow as the remaining farms get ever larger. In 1987, half of American dairy farms had 80 cows or fewer; by 2012, that number was 900 cows. In March, Walmart announced plans to open its own bottling plant in Indiana, leading Dean Foods, a major Walmart supplier, to terminate its contracts with over 100 dairy farmers in eight states.” - From the Eater article

I’m not a Brit, but what I’ve read during the Brexit campaign was that it was ferociously supported financially by the international banking community. Crisis in the UK would provide opportunities for immense profit elsewhere.

That’s why I cited the Eater article. It’s a “I’ll drive your family farm out of existence, and benefit my corporation,” strategy. And it’s worldwide.


(John Hartley) #7

Probably not quite as straight as that. But I’m certain in my mind that many of Brextremists see the opportunity to turn the UK in to some form of low regulation offshore tax haven. It is why they advocate a “no deal” Brexit which would mean we had no links to the continent wide regulation of such things as workers rights and environmental protection.

What is also fairly certain is that a number of, erm “shadowy” organisations which had given support to the Trump campaign, also had involvememt with the Leave campaign and, indeed, far right organisations across Europe. My feeling is that those organisations have a profit motive at their core, alongside societal changes.


#8

I have heard that some English want to organise another public vote on Brexit referendum. Will this be happening?


(John Hartley) #9

It’s very unclear at present. What many of us are saying is that we should have the right to vote on whatever final deal the government negotiates with the EU, including an option to vote to stay in. So far, the position of both major political parties is not to allow that final vote, so it looks unlikely. The problem is that those parties are hopelessly split on the subject and I’m not sure that any deal would have a majority in parliament. Every day, it just looks a bigger problem. The Labour Party has its annual conference in a few days and the idea of a “Peoples Vote” is to be debated. If that happens, the pressure in parliament will grow.


(For the Horde!) #10

News articles tend to be more negative than positive. The reason is that a negative news sell better than a positive news. (not saying anything about Brexit, but just in general)


#11

Funny, I find that much news here has been frustratingly soft in reporting on the damages to be done by Brexit. Not much fear-mongering although we could have done with that in the lead up, or the aftermath.


(For the Horde!) #12

Thanks for the information. Here in the US, Brexist is definitely portrayed as a mistake.


(John Hartley) #13

That’s interesting. My gut reaction would have been that American business would see it as an opportunity to sell to us. And certainly our Brexit supporters have touted the two-way trade opportunities. On the other hand, Brexit opponents are concerned that this will mean that there would probably be imports of, say, chlorine washed chicken and hormone injected beef - both currently banned under EU regulation. I’d also reckon that we have picked a particularly bad time to worsen our trade with other EU countries and seek trade with the US, when you’re government is following its “America first” policy.

These are not good times


#14

What percentage of your fruits, grains, and vegetables are grown domestically?
How will this change the supply chains?
Complex questions.
We’re going to start wondering where our phones and food are coming from soon ourselves.


(John Hartley) #15

I don’t have the figures but we are heavily dependent on the Netherlands and Spain for salad items. These obviously have short lives and border delays could be a significant issue. I does not take a delay for each vehicle to add up. A year or so back, I was returning from Belgium through the port of Dunkerque which is, primarily, a commercial port and our Border Agency was checking each lorry for possible illegal immigrants who had stowed away (or were being trafficked). We had arrived in plenty of time to catch our ferry but the queue was such that we missed it and had to wait three hours for the next one.


#16

I don’t know how exactly the trade works, but I am sure the Spanish and the Dutch will still want to sell you the vegetables. At the end of the day, some kind of agreement will be reached to facilitate and speed up things at the border. Price may increase, but the the European countries depending on British trade don’t want unemployment.

The extreme right party with the agenda of Frexit is popular these days, especially with the retired population.


(John Hartley) #17

In that lies the problem.

Over 40% of British exports are to the EU. Yet the UK only accounts for 8% of its exports. Generally speaking, we will miss them veyr much more than they will miss us.

And, yes, I understand about the Front. Things seem very similar on both sides of the Channel/Manche. Older people in the UK are much more supportive of Brexit than younger ones. I think it’s something like 75% of the over 65s voted to leave (so I am decidedly in a minority), whilst over 75% of those under 25 voted to remain. I can be reasonably said that the older generation, who won’t be around too much longer, have really effed the youngsters’ future. Fortunately, my nephew holds British and Spanish passports so will still be able to take advantage of free movement, using his Spanish one. .


(For the Horde!) #18

Yeah. The thing though if I understand is that Brexit is not about the trade itself, correct? I thought it has more to do with politics/policy such as immigration and a sense of sovereignty.


(John Hartley) #19

It depends on which side of the divide you stand, Chem.

Although I am also interested in immigration and sovereignty - but take the view that immigration has been economically and socially beneficial to the UK (generally speaking) and that, as a nation, we have generally succeeded when we have pooled our sovereignty with others. But then I take the view that, politically, I have more in common with Bulgarian Greens, than British Conservatives - had we been staying in (or when in the future we reapply for membership), I hope we push for a more democratic Europe with real power passing to the European parliament and away from the narrow national self-interests.


(For the Horde!) #20

I should rephrase myself. What I earlier meant to say is that people who vote for Brexit (Britain leaving EU) not because they think leaving EU will make them economically richer, but that leaving EU will make UK a more sovereignty country, and that UK has been bullied by German and France…etc. Even many Brexit supporters at the time were arguing that the economic impact from Brexit won’t be as bad as some have suggested. In short, they admitted that it will be negative – just a small negative. So obviously, they were supporting Brexit despite of the economic downturn, and not because of it. That is what I meant.

“One thing both pro- and anti-EU voices can agree on is that the short-term impact of Brexit is likely to be negative…The longer-term effects are more controversial, although most economists reckon that they too are likely to be negative.”

Also, to some extends, wasn’t it a middle finger to the British politicians too? Sort of like “Screw you” – of course, it ends up screwing everyone. :stuck_out_tongue: