Good point–things that wilt and cook down. Add less spatter and accommodation of taller foods (e.g., squab, pullets, etc.) and deeper braising liquor under the cover. Basically, what we’re extolling here is sold in US restaurant supply as a brazier.
I have no issue calling a saute with two handles a rondeau. But if you already have a saute of X cm diameter and Y cm height (especially one that fits in your oven), then to me it makes less sense to have a rondeau of exactly the same size.
I’ll say that the 32 cm I’m currently using has only 3 inch/7.6cm sidewalls and I do wish for a little higher, as it occasionally causes mishaps with a very wet dish. Although I guess this is only a little shy of the standard specified by Louis.
But another 2 inches higher would seem very deep to me, and might be awkward getting implements down to the intersection of bottom/wall.
Excellent point taking into account the thickness. I have both a 28 cm Mauviel 2.3mm saute pan, and a 32 cm Dehillerin 3.5+mm saute. I don’t think 2.2mm will dent, but it won’t heat as evenly as thicker copper.
In the 28 cm diameter, I almost always use my Le Creuset 30cm low dutch oven these day (its pan floor is around 28 cm). Another great option is a thick aluminum disc bottom rondeau, eg the Paderno GG mentioned before.
I would hesitate buying a 32 cm rondeau of only 2.2 mm thickness.
Williams Sonoma contracted with Mauviel to make a 12” tinned saute of 3-3.5 mm that can be found on eBay not infrequently. I recommend picking up one of those, especially if you don’t mind the long handle and no fitted lid.
I’m surprised. I would have thought you’d favor the Paderno over the LC on the stove. Isn’t the thick aluminum disk more even heating than ECI?
At least 4 inches, if not 4.5.
Otherwise, why not just use a saucepan.
Yes it is. But I’ve come to the realisation - after a decade of experimenting with thick copper, thick alu disc, 5-ply, and ECI - that the most evenly heating pan does not necessarily make the best stews and braises.
I call it: the real world is more complex than bottom thickness and sidewall heat. 
LOL. Yes, in the real world, the reason why the stew or braise tastes better may also be that the pot the cook has chosen brings him more pleasure and enjoyment than another perhaps more technically efficient vessel, f.i. because there are memories behind or because he finds it more beautiful. One should not underestimate the importance of that. It’s the cook who makes the dish, not the pot 
Except for me that has not been the case at all.
I really did not want to like Le Creusets. Tried everything I could to make magic happen in copper and thick disc bottom. “Look at me, I’m so smart and ahead of the rest, I know what good cookware is. No flame Le Creusets for me!”
My Le Creusets are all white. I still find coloured ECI downright ugly. I also hate when ‘normal’ people come to my kitchen they all rave about the Le Creuset, while neglecting all my copper and other carefully curated purchases.
I once made a stew both in a LC and in a Fissler, exact same ingredients, same time. The LC won hands down. Since then I’ve just accepted the truth.
Trust me, the Le Creuset makes some damn good food (and yes the cook plays a big role too!).
Hi Damiano,
Perhaps you can remember a discussion I had with Andrew and Kaleo on Chowhound ?!?
I made the same stew in my Fissler OP 28 cm 7.2 liter pot bad in my Staub 28 cm ECI and in my Le Creuset 28 cm ECI.
I preferred the stews cooked in my two unevenly heating ECI pots over the stew cooked in the Fissler OP pot.
Both (Kaleo and Andrew) had serious trouble accepting my findings - that a stew cooked in an unevenly heating ECI pot with tendencies to scorching in any way could taste better than a stew cooked in a far more evenly heating and far more technically perfect pot like the Fissler OP on paper is.
You can’t measure cooking quality in a scientific matrix model, you just can’t - no matter what, some people just can’t grasp that fact 
Hi Claus,
I recall that discussion, as well, and perhaps you remember my theory that the reason the stew tasted better to you when cooked in ECI is because more of the liquid evaporated. Usually ECI pot lids don’t fit anywhere near as snugly as those on a Fissler – there’s always enough of a gap to allow steam to escape, whether it’s in the oven or on the cooktop. There’s also the psychological factor Louis mentioned, which should not be dismissed.
In any case, my experience of cooking braised dishes on induction is quite the reverse of yours and Damiano’s. Those cooked in disc-bottomed pots like Padernos and Fisslers taste far better than those made in ECI, probably because I’m able to achieve a better sear of the meat initially.
Cheers,
Andrew
On the ECI versus other materials comparison, I can think of three factors. A bit more evaporation will lead to a slightly more concentrated dish, but this has already been mentioned. At the sear stage I tend to hover more over the ECI because of the uneven heat distribution. As pieces spend time on the hotter spots I inevitably let them get close to scorching but not quite there. The deeper sear yields more flavor. In the ECI I tend to use a bit more fat, butter, oil, or whatever and turn with tongs. With other surfaces one might use less fat and a spatula. Fat produces and carries flavor.
I’ve challenged you before to at least posit a “real world” explanation of why it is you think ECI makes better stews and braises. So far, no go. Simply calling cooking in it “complex” doesn’t help.
Hi Andrew,
I perfectly understand your logic and arguments.
I’m convinced that psychology plays a HUGE importance in cooking, whether you’re the person doing the cooking or the person eating it or both.
You eat with your eyes and presentation in Michelin star restaurants is half of the experience.
For us cookware enthusiasts making the food in cookware, that makes us feel better can also undoubtedly to me make us feel better about what we cook and influence the way we feel something tastes.
I cook half or so of my stews without lid on, and the test I did with the 2 ECI pots and the Fissler OP was conducted without lids on - I think I was making 3 Boeuf Bourgignon, if I remember correctly.
I monitor the liquid level thoroughly during the cooking process.
To be honest I’ve since then cooked several stews and braises in my 2 great Fissler Original Profi pots (4.5 liter 28 cm & 7.2 liter 28 cm) and with great results.
They perform fantastically.
As you say, when I give the edge to my ECI pots from Staub and Le Creuset, it might have to do with a 1% extra coming from a combination of a psychological edge, a feel good thing and perhaps from the way cast iron cooks compared to a pot in stainless steel with aluminium sealed bottom.
It’s entirely impossible to completely isolate things unless you do it in a professional kitchen with a number of unbiased chefs.
Tim, that’s a very well thought out post.
I think Andrew and Kaleo can accept your very logical explanations, I know I do at least.
This pretty much could be the reason why some get a superior stew made in an ECI pot compared to a stew made in a far more evenly heating and technically better made cooking vessel - at least when making stews - like the Fissler Original Profi pots.
I think Tim’s excellent post further down this thread pretty precisely explains what Damiano might mean with ‘real world’ explanation, Kaleo.
This is what I do with my ECI; I also think that a lot of people don’t realize the role that fat plays in carrying flavor, spices, and herbs. It’s sad because it only requires a Sam all amount; bue everyone freaks out and goes “light” no fat but pile in the sugar and carbs. I always do stews in my ECI and it’s a labor of love. I agree that the emotional response to cookware can certainly affect the cooking skills and styles applied. That said, I’m sitting here reminiscing about a stew that recently deceased old friend asked me to share with her a few years ago. She was not a cooking enthusiast. She had no special equipment or cookware, only the usual collection that would be acquired from Penney’s or some such when setting up modest housekeeping years ago. I do remember an enameled steel soup pot (with flowers!) in their kitchen years ago when I was helping with a big meal. But let me say this: it was the best stew I had ever eaten. No wine, no exotic spices. It was absolutely plain - and magical! I also remember when I met her and her husband, half a century ago, they invited me to their apartment for dinner - which was crab cakes prepared in a cast iron skillet. I remember so vividly … RIP my friends, and thank you for good meals prepared with humble instruments and lots of friendship!
I’m so surprised to read this result of the experiment. A blind taste test would have added necessary rigor.
Those crab cakes. I almost feel like I could have been there. What a gesture of loving kindness. God rest their soul.
Well, you might be on to something, I know not what. I’ve never heard anyone, including Harold McGee or Kenjii, articulate it.
That is, the “E” part in ECI is known to treat fats differently than do other lining materials. Chef James Peterson rightly faults ECI for sauce and saute work because the “fat runs through the jus”. By this, I think he means that the fat and jus stay separated longer and the jus/sucs can embitter or burn.
It is possible–I mean theoretically–that there is an advantage to this phenomenon that benefits stewing enough to make a non-imaginary, un-romantic, objective flavor difference. Without more, I don’t believe it, but I’m open to the idea. However, one would think that, between Le Creuset, Staub, and Lodge, some profit-motivated person would have fleshed out a cogent theory.
