Plus they don’t work when covered in snow, which is the most likely point of failure with PG&E.
The problem with PG&E in California is that they don’t upgrade/upkeep their power lines.
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The rep who calculated the break even point told me that even cloudy and rainy days in my microclimate cut deeply into the amount of power generated.
Also, where I live, ALL the new systems’ power goes back on the grid, not to power the owners’ homes.
The power grids, roads, bridges, airports, etc. all across the U.S. have been ignored for decades. This from the richest country in the world… one that once prided itself on its infrastructure. Not sure whether this is do to a lot of deregulation or just greed by those responsible… but it is sad to see.
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Yes, as a nation we hate paying taxes while bemoaning the lack of creation and maintenance of infrastructure.
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LoL, snarky! Haha.
Holy Cow! Even in the worst winter storms here (ice dragging down lots of power lines), I think 3 days was the longest. Maybe 4. And this was due to inescapable problems, not “preemptively shutting off power”. My daughter is an engineer for a Florida power company and similarly, they rarely go over 3 days even for hurricanes. WTH is PG&E doing shutting off your MIL’s power for days in a row?
I don’t get it - here the power companies preemptively trim tree limbs that might (in heavy winds) hit lines. Instead of in PG&E’s case, shutting down power preemptively to prevent (untrimmed?) tree limbs from hitting lines?
Sounds like insanity to me.
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I think you’ve mentioned this before, but I don’t recall if I asked then. What’s the (very approximate) split between hydro/nuke/wind? Just wondering if it’s on the order of 45/45/10?
I only ask because so much of the enviro movement has demonised use of nuclear power, which really seems the best way out of the fossil fuel issue. Is yours majority nukes or at least close majority with hydro?
So much else of NY state (and indeed, US as a whole) gets so little from either hydro or nuke.
Also @kaleokahu - my MIL has a JennAir downdraft (exhausts out the side of the house), and while not perfect, it does do a fair job. I spent about 3 months daily cooking for them (and their many “helpful” visitors) after a bad auto accident and came away more impressed with it than I had started out. Yes, it does let a lot more smoke circulate than an over-range hood, but overall I was pretty happy with it. I only set the smoke detectors off a couple of times. 
It was certainly better than having no exhaust system at all, which I’ve also dealt with from time to time.
Scott, it’s often poorly done de-regulation, in terms of continuing to keep the originator utility paid for what they were paid off long ago for.
An example. In my area they de-reg’d natural gas in 1996. The originator utility had laid the gas lines in the 1890s and had the benefit for their monopoly [1] for over 100 years. Yet the de-reg scheme included a per-therm “pipe rent” assessed against all the newcomer sellers, that was higher than the prior actual cost per-therm of the natural gas.
I moved from the still regulated Midwest, to the “deregulated” Southeast, where the Natty pipeline runs right through, to pay double per therm total for my natural gas.
[1] I don’t sneer at the basic notion of giving a monopoly to a utility willing to spend so much on infrastructure. But EFFING c’mon, after 100 years they’ve had their payback. The original payback on this gas line monopoly was supposed to be in the close vicinity of 25 years. So why 100 years later did the “de-reg” still protect the originator?
Politics. That’s why.
A bit, but in all honesty, some people are indeed like this. They are emotionally attached to an idea, and it does not matter what data are presented.
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Actually they currently do both. Unless there are eagles nesting in the tree.
California tree with bald eagles at center of feud, PG&E backs down
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Well, that’s a pretty low bar for happiness.
I feel your pain there. Oh boy, solar systems can get expensive quickly.
The quote you received was probably for doing a whole-home solar system with batteries and inverters (i.e. largely replacing the grid), rather than one for just enough power to power essentials when the grid goes down.
Some quick math:
My electric oven uses 0.27kWh of energy to preheat to 350F with a cast iron pan inside, and 0.5kWh to cook food and maintain that 350F for 60 minutes.
So to be able to cook in my oven for an hour a day, plus pre-heating, I’d need 0.77kWh (770Wh) of backup power. On average that equates to 250 watts of solar panels getting 3 sun hours of energy per day, plus batteries to store that power. Mind you, that’s just to run my oven for an hour; we’re talking about power for essentials here when the grid is down, not about building an off-grid home.
Solar panels are $100 for a 100 watt panel at Costco. I can pair three of those with a small battery and inverter for less than $1,000 total. That would let me heat my food in an emergency (and using my induction cooktop would probably be even more efficient).
If I wanted a whole-home solar system to run my AC and my kitchen range and work during power outages without interruption (or even get a net-zero cost on the grid) then, sure, I could pay $10,000s. Those systems usually range more in the $20,000-$30,000 cost range–or more. And they’re best installed when installing a new roof.
I could also spend $1,000s (rather than$10,000s) and get 1,200 watts of solar panels (3 400-watt panels) and a 4kWh-6kWh battery pack. That would let me cook, run the fridge, and do the other essentials I needed if the power went down. For a lot of people, that’s an ideal backstop to power outages–and something they can pay for over a few years.
There are a lot of levels between “can’t cook when the power is down” and “off-grid home with an expensive solar and battery system.” And there are alternate generation options (including fuel-powered smelly gas generators).
And there is also the option of outlaying $100 for a portable propane burner. Not nearly as nice as using our everyday stoves, but cheap and effective in an emergency.
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My husband told me that our neighbor spent $12,000.00 and she didn’t get a battery.
A friend of my husband’s just installed a solar system with a battery. The battery requires five feet of clearance which isn’t practical for many people.
To switch to induction requires buying the range, hiring an electrician and buying new pots and pans.
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All good points, @maccrogenoff .
The batteries that people typically think of when they think of solar are probably Tesla Powerwall batteries or similar. Those are pretty big (12kWh is pretty typical) and many are designed more for emergencies than for everyday use. They often cost $8,000 or more installed.
For essentials (a single burner or microwave, fridge and freezer, laptops and phones), it’s possible to install something about 1/3 to 1/2 that large. But most people don’t think small, and a lot of installers don’t want to bother putting in smaller systems. Not worth their time.
Two of these batteries, for instance, should cost about $5,000 and cover all the essentials in most homes for a full day. They use a battery chemistry which can be discharged and recharged daily (80%).
PHI 3.8-M™ BATTERY | SimpliPhi Power
Most electric equipment related to batteries or solar inverters will require several inches, maybe a foot or so of clearance. Five feet is a bit extreme. Most batteries that want that much clearance that I’ve seen are ones that are best mounted outdoors or maybe at the far end of a garage. LFP-style batteries (such as Sonnen’s lineup) are often installed in spaces that are more closet-like in nature.
As for switching from methane to induction, yeah, I totally get your point. It makes more sense in new homes or for replacing an old stove, and for people who use non-aluminum, non-copper-exterior pans. That’s a huge market, but it’s certainly not all of us.
Induction stoves which suit our individual cooking styles can also get expensive (Vollrath 4-series comes to mind as something that a lot of food flippers might enjoy–but it’s not really meant for homes).
I’m an unabashed fan of induction cooking, but I also understand that it’s not the preferred choice (or even the right choice) for everyone. I totally respect that. And I appreciate all of y’all chiming in as well
BTW, my main concern for folks with all-electric cooktops is being able to boil water when the grid is down. I’d love to be able to cook as usual, but boiling water and staying warm (or cool, in desert environments) are health necessities.
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Wow @afs ! That was tremendously informative!
We bought solar panels that promised to cover about 80 percent of our existing electric bill at the time, which was about 8 or 9 years ago. The energy goes to the grid, and no battery, but it’s worked out okay, and I think we may have almost broken even about now.
Lately though, batteries became available, but not practical for us. In the last few years the company has had to reimburse when the utility company charges us a “true up”, and they want us to buy more panels .
We got a bunch of generators instead, including a portable solar panel for the back yard.
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Yabut they’re in their 80s and not doing a lot of high-temp searing in the kitchen, so “better than nothing” is good enough for them (they do still grill steaks outside a fair bit).
Nope. Where I live the solar power goes back on the grid, and can’t be routed back through the panel. You get “credits”, which do not roll over. Nifty trick, huh?
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A quip I heard this morning was about someone’s gas stove now identifying as ‘electric’.
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