The death of vegetarianism. Hurrah for the winner - veganism

Personally, I enjoyed my steak last night and will enjoy tonight’s pasta & tomato sauce (with Parmesan)


If that suits them. Fine.

Not having any medical conditions or dietary restrictions I enjoy eating all food groups. Sometimes I do eat too much cheese but I also eat a lot more vegetables.

Know what foods are best for oneself and don’t fall victim to any cult or extremist ideology.


Exactly, I agree with you.


I think what I took away from the article is that vegan dishes are becoming the norm in restaurants, as the non-meat/fish alternative. It quotes Elite Bistros (all of their six branches are local to me - and one is a regular place of ours). Elite makes the point that, as it offers a non-meat dish amongst its six or so main courses, it is better commercial sense to make it vegan, rather than vegetarian, so all the non meat eaters can order it. .

FWIW, the Elite place we go to regularly currently offers roast Hispi cabbage, smoked potato puree, gremolata and pumpkin seeds. The other mains feature beef featherblade, plaice, hake and pork chop. The vegan item would be my fifth choice. By the by, the vegans are going to be out of luck if they want dessert.


Substitute “things” for “food” and this is excellent life advice.


Do you know how you can tell who’s vegetarian or vegan?


Yes. They will both tell you quicker than I can read your post.


Just like atheists. :joy:


Yes, I’m one of them. And I suppose me acknowledging that makes your point. :grinning:

By the by, it was my MiL’s funeral yesterday. We explained to the undertaker that she had been actively religious in her younger days but we werent so sure about later life,as she had a secular funeral for her husband a couple of years ago. None of the younger generation have any religious faith. We agreed with the celebrant that the service would be mainly secular but there would be a Christian prayer and there would be a period for private thoughts/prayers whilst one of the pieces of music was playing.

I don’t think we had any vegetarians or vegans at the funeral lunch.


What I find funny is that for quite some time now, all vegan news seems to come from omnivores who proudly declare their preference for meat.

So I think things have changed and the tables have turned on that mouldy oldie. (Respectfully.)


I read it quickly and had to go make dinner. I meant to concur with you and believe in the many benefits of eating a varied diet.

This is always topic of contention and such threads tend to escalate quickly.

There’s no doubt vegan food has entered the mainstream. The food business always faces challenges and to survive some restaurants have to evolve. One can’t fail to notice more and more vegetarian and vegan options on the menu nowadays. The smart ones expand the menu with more options to retain existing customers and attract new (non meat-eating) ones.

I shall continue to enjoy eating my vegetables and things that are good for me. Still have no plan to try vegan “cheese”.


You do right. I have tried it once at a vegan restaurant in the area. There were three different “cheeses” on the plate. All were vile. Neither the texture nor flavour profile of cheese. Actively nasty.


My condolences to @Harters on his recent loss.

On topic: bacon is a vegetable. It’s good for you.

As someone who does deal with dietary issues, I welcome this…if there’s a vegan option on the menu then I know that there is something that I can eat without asking 20 questions of the server, or sounding like a spoiled princess asking them to leave off the sauce or the cheese.

All I want to do is go to a restaurant and order something that won’t leave me in pain and feeling like death warmed over for the next 3 days.

If you don’t want to eat vegan then don’t. It’s that simple.

But please, please, please stop disparaging restaurants for finally grasping that not everyone can eat everything…and that we’re not being spoiled bitches about it, it’s our health and wellbeing at stake…and that throwing a bowl of wilted lettuce or a side of fries at us is not an okay option.

(And while I agree that most vegan cheeze is dire there are a couple that are at least edible)


I don’t intend to disparage, but I think restaurants going down this path are over responsive to PC. 0.4% of Americans are vegan(ish). 3.2% are vegetarian. Not really much of a market.

Certainly the availability of vegetarian options is convenient for people like @Sunshine842 with dietary issues just as the gluten-free fad has been a boon for celiacs (less than 1% of Americans). Interesting to me is that numbers for lactose intolerance are much higher (10% of Americans, as much as 75% worldwide) and yet gets less attention. The most common triggers for acid reflux are well known (20% of Americans) but there is little attention by restaurants to that as they pack butter and salt into everything.

Why so much attention to 0.4% of the population?

Then there are the poseurs like my 14 year old niece who claims to be vegan but puts butter on her noodles and inhales chicken fingers. sigh


I’m with you. Sunshine.

I’m almost an omnivore (no pig or octopus for reasons beyond their deliciousness) but prefer a plant-based diet for reasons of environmental sustainability and habit. And I’m always keen to explore non-dairy options because my body is not happy with dairy.

The outcry whenever restaurants include vegetarian and vegan options is getting old, and I still don’t understand the furore caused by EMP’s intention to go plant-based (vegan being more of a holistic approach to the use fo animals). People were complaining about the cost when there was no meat involved, and I have to wonder: Is it flesh that gives these expensive meals value? Or is it the opportunity to eat a dish that reflects creativity and invention-- and high quality product? Because if the latter, I would love to see that done with a vegetarian or vegan option. Not because I am, but because the more options (and the more options based in sustainability) the better.

And if someone wants to come at me with the unsustainable practices of certain non-meat farming (almond, palm) yes yes, I know. This isn’t about playing gotcha, it’s about working to come up with sustainable alternatives that do not create more harm than they are worth. That will take time, and the more open people are to that, the better.


I don’t think that its specifically targeting vegans/vegetarians as much as it is just trying to give people options.

I also think it takes more imagination and creativity to create a delicious plant-based plate…it shouldn’t, but too many restaurants offer only a tired salad or something piled with a selection of sides that inevitably includes frozen vegetables “hard sauteed” (thrown from the freezer into the deep fryer) and fries/chips.

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Somewhat different here in the UK (to where the original article relates). 3% vegan and 6% vegetarian. So, a not insignificant market.


I respectfully disagree. If it were about options there would be more attention to dairy-free (lactose intolerance) and low/no-fat (acid reflux) which affect many more people. I think it’s yet another food fad and chef’s are scrambling to climb aboard the wagon.

I also think the sustainability argument is a red herring. Current factory farming practices are generally rough for both animals and plants. I think the real issue is that we have too many people to feed. That leads to the observation that there is only one life form on this planet of which there are too many. Solyent Green.

And even higher in other countries. Agreed.

I don’t understand the argument that the percentages of vegans and vegetarians are too small to cater to since plant based meals are available to almost everyone, or at least more people than meat-based meals.
When we catered meals here at work, it was easier to cater vegetarian and pescatarian meals since that minimised the risk of the vegetarian not having a meal left for them because the omnivore opted for the vegetable curry or the mac and cheese. And it continues to shock and disappoint how many sandwich
meals in the U.K. are pork heavy which could exclude a lot of people.

In the TLDR of it all, plant-based meals are more likely to be inclusive. Why not develop creativity?