Striking the right balance between having a welcoming environment and salty language

Site Discussions
21

Let grownups talk like grownups – that’s all. The F-bomb has been allowed in PG-13 movies, and t*ts is so commonplace it truly amazes me that someone was so mortally offended that could even muster the click. Don’t get me wrong – it’s not anywhere to be found on my list of 100 most-favorite words, but seriously, is THAT the hill you wanna die on?

The f-bomb-happy poster over on FTC doesn’t offend me – his overuse of the word (IMO) very strongly suggests that he has nothing more important to say, so filling it full of noise makes it seem more important, but I don’t think he should be censored or banned. (Asked to grow up and write like a grownup rather than a swear-happy 12-year-old, maybe, but not censored or banned.) People say he’s got a great writing style, but I’m just not going to go to the work of sifting out the excess to get to what he’s trying to say. I’d feel the same way if he peppered his posts with Geez, or stinkin’ or if he, in person, filled his speech with y’know and like.

This particular thread is about Hooters – in and of itself a slang term for human mammary glands. There is really no way to discuss the place without bringing up mammary glands, and the tenor of the discussion was about their use as a tip-enhancement tool for tips/customer traffic/etc. (and I’m a little amused that living in the middle of Hooters’ home territory, I haven’t heard this much kerfuffle about this issue in years - it’s just a wing joint these days) If someone is offended by the word tits, then they should have steered away from this conversation from the get-go – not requested that adults talking about the restaurant and the culture surrounding its success have their keyboards washed out with soap – after the conversation had been going for a few days.

It’s all about context and intent – and the use of tits and boobs in this conversation was not there to shock or offend.

You said that you wanted the forum PG-13 – people over 13 cuss, and people over 13 use grownup language sometimes (whether obscenity or words having a sexual connotation). Should the situation arise where someone is blatantly and gratuitously using foul language with the sole intent of offending, then it may have to be revisited. (by the way – I am in NO WAY suggesting that any kind of hate-type speech – anything used as a slur – against men, women, races, religions, lifestyle choices, political leanings, etc – should be tolerated at all – THAT is pretty universally offensive and absolutely doesn’t fit into “nice” or “normal adult speech.”_

At the end of the day, it’s your forum, and therefore your right to do whatever you see fit – but someone is going to scream offense (real or imagined) no matter what language you allow or don’t allow.

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22

In my opinion, this isn’t about one word or two or even this particular thread, but rather how we move forward from here, how do we deal with other complaints in the future.

My opinions

(1) Overly accommodating can create an environment of “the lowest denominator”. Just because one or two person complain on an issue, we still need to balance the overall situation. Do most people want this or is this a wish of a few? Otherwise, we will develop this site into Budweiser – the lowest denominator. People’s complaints should be taken seriously, but so do people who did not complain – any complaint should be judged against the overall landscape.

(2) Better not to overcorrect. In this case, I would say that changing “B” and “T” words to “chest” is over-sanitizing. If the words have to be changed, then change them to technical terms accepted by professionals or make the smallest possible alternation. Those words can be changed to “breasts”, or possibly change to “Tts" or "Bobs”. The problem of changing to “chest” is that it does not mean the same body part. As such, it sends a message that women’s breasts (not just the words, but the actual body parts) are something to be ashamed of.

(3) What do real Age 13+ teenagers speak like? Regarding PG-13, PG-13 is a lot more vulgar and violence than it has been suggested here. The F-word is allowed in PG-13, which is probably why a few posters are using it now. PG-13 allows showing of bare female breasts, which I hope people won’t attach such photo here. Regarding the “T*ts” and “B**bs” words, they most definitely used by teenagers. Should we be allowed to talk about alcohol? Won’t that be a problem as well?

  1. An overly vulgar forum is unwelcoming, but an overly sanitized/censored forum also creates an unwelcoming atmosphere as well.

Thanks for reading.

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23

In my opinion, for what it’s worth,“sticks and stones might break my bones, but words can never hurt me”.

If you see something, word, phrase or other that you don’t like or find offensive, stop reading it. Skip it, move on! If you find similar language repeatedly being used by the same person…wait for…wait for it…ignore that person!

We don’t live in a sanitized world, in every day life we are responsible for our own well being, treat adults like adults.

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24

“grown up talk” Hmmmm. You all honestly mix in “t1ts, fu6ing, motherfu6er, etc.” in your work-a-day vocabulary? Do you all see it on other internet forums you participate in?

One of my workspaces in the office is adjacent to the kitchen. I can hear the chatter when the ladies take breaks together. I have never heard things like “t1ts, fu6ing, motherfu6er, etc.” The watering holes I frequent have been characterized as biker bars. My pals do not use use language such as “t1ts, fu6ing, motherfu6er, etc.”…unless a beer get dropped, and heck, that rarely happens. I hear this language when my window is open at work, from the hookers, winos, and chronically unemployed down on the corner. “t1ts, fu6ing, motherfu6er, etc.” is not “grown up talk” it is the language of street bums.

Sam, if you decide “grown up” language shall be unrestricted, fine with me. I can mix “t1ts” into my posts just as good as the next lady…or gentleman. However you need to squash instantly and without prejudice, anyone, especially bully groups, who complain about the use of “grown up” language whether the term is perceived to be a gender slight, or lifestyle choice. Or maybe let FTC be the sanctuary of “grown up” talk, seems to be a wasteland there, anyway

editing the offending parts, sorry

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25

It depends on what kind of work environment we are talking about. I don’t know any restaurant kitchens where people don’t cuss. In fact, I frequent a few ethnic restaurants where the waiters/waitresses always cuss openly in foreign languages to each others. They probably don’t expect I understand them. I work in a professional environment, even there people do cuss in private small group settings, especially close door.

Anyway, this is actually different than what we were talking about. No one was actually cussing. No one (in this thread) were use these vocabulary to attack anyone.

Biscuit, I am a bit surprise your change of heart, because early on you got a lot of criticisms when you called another person a ska*k, and you stood firm on that subject. People were calling you to apologize. I actually stuck my head out to defended your intention.

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A post was merged into an existing topic: Hooters

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A post was merged into an existing topic: Hooters

33

OK folks- we got complaints about the use of the word T*ts. I am just going to go back to all posts that had these words, replaced it with the word Chest, and noted that I made the changes.

(Mod note: this post was the first post of the thread, but I messed up the time stamp so it ended up down here)

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This thread will now reopen. Only posts related to constructive discussion of the handling of this issue please. Please no raising of voice.

36

I’ve read this thread top to bottom. Twice. And am still not entirely sure what the issue is. I have never seen a Hooters nor have more than a minimal idea what it is. Certainly I know that it’s a place where I don’t want to have dinner. Upthread, kattyeyes make sthe suggestion that, if we focus on the breasts of chickens, etc, then we shouildnt have any problems. Makes perfect sense to me.

I think we can be over-sensitive when we’re online (some unmoderated boards I know excluded) but if we just exercise our adult commonsense, we should be OK.

By way of examples, another place I have never seen but know I don’t want to have dinner there is Dick’s Last Resort. Are we to take offence at mention of a slang word for a penis? Or, am I take to take offence when Americans use my first name as slang for the toilet (depending on context, yes I might)?

John

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Please don’t take offense if I ever say I have to use the “John”. (Lol)

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I suggest that we should use the term “NotJohn” because NotJohn is not related to John after all.

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I like a little salty language and I dislike being overly moderated. As far as I can tell, this is an older crowd that should be able to handle the odd slang term. Complaining about that one in particular is overreacting, IMO.

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40

If this were an Italian language website, banning the word “tits” would result in banning a discussion of at least a dozen – if not more – classic Italian dishes, some of the actually made with the teats of animals, or others that use the word descriptively to describe a pastry, the most notorious being a mound of meringue topped with a candied cherry called “nun’s tits”. These pastries are on publicly on display at child’s-eye level in pastry cases, tagged as such.

My own view is that any English-language international food website that disallows an expression like ripped to the tits is a less educational space for me. I regularly follow the comments on the Guardian UK website, and as an American it’s been a great expansion of my off-colour vocabulary. (Which by the way, when I was a American media worker, already had grown to tremendous proportions and got plenty of daily exercise, all day long, in every office meeting and editorial conference I attended – True of both men and women.)

But I also follow an international movie discussion forum, and the site uses some kind of automatic bleeper that instantly renders all of George Carlin’s 7 Dirty Words (was tits one of them?) to beep, and it does the same to racial/religious slurs. People will get around the automatic censor with inventions like “fooking”, and people who persistently post racial/religious slurs get complained about and booted, but what is good about the system – if you feel you must censor – is that it doesn’t inhibit people from writing what they really think on the fly. What other people will see is “Man, when she walked into that room, I dropped my entire beep box of popcorn” so you don’t lose the flavour of somebody’s style.

Don’t know if others saw the news report not long ago that talked about how most people writing on the internet, even privately, now feel obliged to pre-censor themselves and not use words like “bomb” or “terror” or even “god willing” because of the NSA. So creating any space where people feel like they can say what they think to each other across borders strikes me as an adult responsibility!

I don’t know if the Guardian considers its online website a family website for 13+. Does Slate? Is there a way to offer yourself up for V-chip inclusion or whatever it is parents do to computers to make sure their youngest are not traumatised by reading a word like tits while researching items of educational interest?

If I had a kid whom I discovered was spending their free time hanging out on a website like Hungry Onion, I’d be thrilled and relieved – even if I occasionally saw somebody post one or all seven of George Carlin’s Dirty Words (but I think no matter who or how many complain you cannot ban balls no matter how people use it, however they use it – but then again to me, balls are just balls and tits are just tits. Parts of mammals.

41

Only if someone suggests the servers at Dick’s tend to get bigger tips by “shoving their d*cks in people’s faces.” That seems in poor taste to say the least.

But, maybe we should talk about this place next! Their little ditty is pretty amusing:
http://crabby-dicks.com/

And please don’t be offended, though I wish I understood how your name came to be used that way. My mom uses “you” all the time despite the fact I even lived with someone with your same name for years; she’s a funny sort. :wink:

42

I’ve yet to work up the courage to eat Spotted Dick. What is it, anyway?

43

Some will be as surprised as I to learn that the using “John” as a synonym of toilet originated in Britain

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Well, Mr. Harters, you have your own homeland to thank. Sorry! :wink: If it makes you feel better, I never use “you” like that. HA HA.