I’m making white chicken stock today, and was pondering why–besides saving time–I needed to resort to high temperatures. Legion are the recipes and prescriptions for 200F, which IME are pretty aggressive simmers. Some writers say 185F. Others mention a “mere burble” or an “occasional bubble”, which I’ve measured to be around 165F. And most of these instructions call for boiling to start, followed by reduction to the specc’d simmer. Only a few forbid boiling.
Then I found this: https://thejapanesefoodlab.com/chicken-stock/ The slow/low extraction method set out there calls for temperature no higher than 70C/158F, for a period of 10 hours. Notably, the article claims this slow/low method is preferred by chefs at Japan’s ramen restaurants.
So I’m keeping this batch under 160F at all times to assess.
Anyone here tried this or similar? If so, with what results?
I do chicken stock from roasted/baked chicken carcassi / bone right regular.
a 4-5 hour covered slow simmer works for me. the drained stuff conceals into spectacular stock magic - typically used in ‘chicken noodle soup’
I can always tell how good the soup is gonna’ be by the degree of ‘gelatinization’ of the stock.
which I cool, strain out the bones, pick the bones clean - for the soup . . .
a hard boil is historically noted to create a lot of fuzzy cloudy ‘stuff’ in the finished product.
don’t know there is a magical temperature - one could research what temp is required to extract chicken gelatin - no?
Never checked but it is not really bubbling. Occasionally there will be a single bubble. Not enough to cloud the broth. I’ll check the temp next time I make stock, probably this week.
I’ve seen recommendations to briefly boil raw chicken pieces, discard the water and rinse before proceeding to make the stock. Is this what you do? What does that accomplish besides forcing out more residual blood and serum that you’d otherwise have to skim? And if you do the preboil, do you bring the stock to a boil again before lowering to your simmer?
methinks the pre-boil / boil / not boil / other . . .
revolves around how many Michelin stars you have for your kitchen.
what horrible thing happens if your stock is a bit cloudy?
taste/enjoyment . . . nothing.
in a mullti-star (or equivalent ) kitchen - absolute utterly everything to the last and minutest detail must be “perfect” - executed to the highest degree of “perfection”
and then I go to a $300 per nose resto, have some duck, which ever single slice has a chewy and spit it out tendon chunk . . .
in a 3-4 star resto, a “cloudy consume” is a deadly sin.
in the home kitchen, not so much?
I’m not personally concerned about some turbidity, if only because I don’t make consomme. However, if I can get more flavorful (or brighter, or better-bodied) stock AND have it be clearer, with the only price being a leisurely cook, why not?
Are you familiar with Dave Arnold’s stock experiments? He compared stocks made in venting and non-venting pressure cookers, and found real differences. The whole idea of using PCs is to AVOID boiling, yet cook at a temperature >100C.
Time and temperature are only two variables. There’s also the ratio(s) of mirrepoix surface area to volume, i.e., how fine a dice and how much moistening. Serious Eats’ Daniel has touched on this.
Stock making may be one of the last things where uncritical acceptance of tradition still rules. I find that fascinating.
uhmmm, the whole entire point of a “pressure cooker” is to generate temperatures above 212’F enabling faster cooking at higher temperatures.
I have utterly no idea what a “vented” pressure cooker does.
I simply do not do neo-theory cooking.
I do not do surface area of mirrepoix when making stock.
I am old school. and, as far as I see, that tradition is still valid - the theory of some benefit to “boiling” > 100’C / 212’F is completely from the outer world of reality.
when does chicken/beef/pork/lamb achieve gelatin state?
and why does producing that gelatin condition at temperatures +10 , + 20 + 30 degrees - make for a superior product?
Does your PC have a jiggler? If it does, it’s vented. If it stays sealed (unless the saftey valve cracks), it’s non-vented. Most modern PCs are of the latter type. And their purpose in stock making is to elevate the temp WITHOUT boiling–if you can simmer at 220F instead of 185F, things just go faster. I’m just asking the question if faster and/or higher is better.
As far as tradition goes, many cooks still judge steaks’ doneness with a finger poke. Thermometers and thermostats and rheostats haven’t been around all that long, so tradition is relative, I suppose. Do you bring your conserves to a specific temperature, or wait for the spoon test?
Oh, and collagen melts into gelatin beginning at about 130F.
Making stock is one area where I often throw tradition out. My typical chicken stock begins with tossing a bag of vegetable trimmings, putting a carcass with them, and roasting at 400F until all is lightly browned. It all goes in the stock with herbs de Provence, bay leaf or two, and a dozen or so peppercorns. Cover with water. I bring it almost or just barely to a boil, adjust it to hold at a smile. Simmer 4 or more hours. Strain by ladling through a Chinois. By ladling rather than pouring it is kept pretty clear. If it will be used where clarity is a big deal, an egg white raft and/or a run or two through cheese cloth gets it there.
I love Cecilia Chiang’s memoir The Seventh Daughter. I think it’s out of print but good used copies are available on Amazon. Such a remarkable life! Wish I could have eaten at her elegant restaurant in SF more often. I use her recipe for Chicken Broth, paraphrased below: (No scum to skim!)
Rinse the chicken well under cold running water. (I cut into quarters so I can remove breasts when they are done. I remove the meat and return bones to the pot).
Put it in a stockpot with enough cold water to cover it by at least 2 inches. Bring to a boil over high heat, let it cook 3 to 4 minutes, then quickly transfer to a colander to drain.
Rinse the chicken again with cold water to remove all traces of scum and clean out the stockpot.
Return the chicken to the pot, add the ginger and salt and enough cold water to cover it by several inches.
Bring the liquid to a boil over high heat. Decrease the heat to medium-low to maintain a simmer and cook for 4 to 5 hours, skimming off fat and foam frequently during the first 30 minutes and then occasionally the rest of the time. Strain and refrigerate for up to 4 days.
Double Delicious Chicken Broth
If you really want to make your soup special and have the time, make Delicious Chicken Broth as previously directed and chill it in the refrigerator. Skim off the fat and repeat the entire recipe for Delicious Chicken Broth, but, for the long
4 to 5 hour simmer, use the chilled broth instead of water. If there’s not enough liquid to cover the chicken then add some water.
