Emile Henry makes a great product for what it is but that’s a modern industrial process that gets fired at temperatures way beyond the capabilities of the kilns the traditional clay pots that I usually use are capable of. Those are, in fact, very similar to cast iron pots and compete in their home market with le creuset much more than a dauberie made in a traditional workshop in Provence.
Here’s the Emile Henry description
Flameware, the popular name for flameproof ceramic cookware, is newer on the market, but it’s extremely practical. This type of stoneware contains mineral elements that keep vessels from expanding and contracting with sudden changes in temperature (as conventional stoneware does), thus allowing them to be used over direct heat on a stovetop or even under the broiler.
And for contrast the type I’ve been showing pictures of:
Earthenware, which can be glazed, partially glazed, or unglazed, is sometimes called redware or terra-cotta, and it is the type most often cited in this book. The pots are low fired at 1,800°F to 2,000°F, and as a result they remain porous and are thus able to “breathe.” They can also expand and contract enough that some of them can withstand direct heat. (A major exception is the Romertopf clay baker, which works on a different principle and should never be placed over direct heat.) When using earthenware, either on the stovetop or in the oven, moderation is always key, as quick changes of temperature may cause the clay to crack.
There’s an in between process called stoneware that’s typical mass produced baking stuff
If you’re interested in some charming videos of a handsome man traveling around France, Spain and Portugal, cooking traditional dishes in the area where they originated, by all means check out Pete’s Pans. Sometimes he uses the traditional pot the dish was originally cooked in.
Could anyone from admin or the moderator team explain how this personal attack on another member (which to my knowledge has been flagged multiple times by multiple members) is allowed to remain up?
Are there special rules of engagement for members that are also part of the moderation team?
I think that would be rather odd, especially in light of @SCK’s recent post in site talk.
This article is mostly pseudoscientific gobbledygook. The only theory here that is remotely plausible is the “pores” hold and carryover “flavor”. Chefs call this flavor ghosting, and almost universally consider it a serious flood flaw. If If the theory is correct, one would expect a well-seasoned cast iron pan’s fishy carryover flavor to extend to clay vessels (nevermind that Romertopfs have glazed bottoms). Maybe the “pores” can also absorb soap and rancid oils?
The “slow and gentle heat” idea makes even less sense. If bringing an oven dish up to cooking temperature slowly made a difference, or leaving it in the pot longer to finish, that would be written into preps. Basically you can do that with any construction. And “gentle”? What’s that mean, lower"?
I found the following sentence in this article fascinating: “The funny part of these scientific principles is that ancient cultures seem to have figured them out a long time ago.” No they didn’t–that’s all they had to cook in!
I will suggest a theory that makes more sense to me, and might explain some’s preference for food from unglazed clay vessels. Alarash? Maybe include this in your testing?
That is, it is well known (see, McGee) that oven cooking in covered vessels results in internal pot temperatures 10-20F higher than the oven temp. If the clay vessel, e.g., Romertopf, is soaked in water beforehand, it’s possible that evaporative cooling causes lower ullage and content temperatures for some time until the water cooks out of the clay. That’s possible and measurable, and perhaps verifiable. But again, that could be replicated in any pan construction (by lowering the outer temperature, using a doufeu, or draping wet cheesecloth over the pan). In any case, I wouldn’t expect a true blind taste test under controlled conditions would somehow make clay-cooked food distinguishable.
You risk missing the forest for the trees by focusing so strongly on the science of the heat transfer, perhaps you’re looking at this backwards.
If I told you that a big green egg was a more efficient source for making food than a traditional luau (I have no idea whether it is or not, this is just a thought experiment) does that invalidate your neighbors decision to dig a pit and put lava rocks in it and preserve/honor the traditional way of doing things?
Invalidate? Hardly. But a Polynesian earth oven and a BGE are wildly different cooking methods. A skilled chef who is familiar with imu cooking can do just as well with traditional preps using other methods. The food is indistinguishable. Not so in a BGE. And they’re not lava rocks…
I want everyone, including you, to LOVE cooking in clay. But there’s no real science behind claims it makes better food, at least that’s been articulated so far.
But I get superior results using an earthenware pot on a stovetop. I’ve explained why multiple times. There’s a huge value to the kinds of food I cook in slowing down the process. It may very well not be as important to you.
I’m not expecting to convert you, but you’re arguing your point over and over having never used a stovetop earthenware pot (correct me if I’m wrong). Have you made cassoulet? What type of cookware did you use? Have you made a tagine or a tangia? Again, in what?
I understand that I’m in a minority in following traditional methods. But I’m no more wrong to do it than your luau master is for heating up his stones.
Yes, so you say. But you’ve not explained how or why that’s true in any objectively verifiable fashion. So it remains your opinion. And that’s 100% fine.
Where on Earth did you get the idea I’ve never cooked in these things? I try to cook in and on everything I can get my hands on. That’s one way to sort out specious claims.
After visiting Single Thread up in Healdsburg, we ended up getting a donabe. We started making dry steamed chicken essence in it and then eventually more pedestrian things like congee and oatmeal.
The soup is delicious, my pot never hit a full boil (which would have been more difficult if I used the copper pot instead) and I’m happy with both my process and my results
You can probably pick up from the picture how low the flame is under a heat diffuser. That, as they say, is the ticket.
but yes, I think whether it’s the material the pot is made from or the effect the material has on my cooking technique, the outcome is different. When the bolognese recipe calls for insaporie, I do it differently in clay. I’m forced to go slower and use less heat initially.
Interesting! I can find steamed chicken essence, but not dry steamed chicken essence. Is that something best made in a donabe? Can you say more about it, or share a link?
I was surprised that several posts stayed up that were personal, demeaning attacks, not passive aggressive at all, but overtly aggressive. The increasing vitriol has made what started out as an interesting cooking inquiry very unpleasant indeed.
