Gregf,
You’ve joined the most successful price range for kitchen knives! AMAZON claims almost 1000 different ones in that price range. My Victorinox clone is super serrated, sharp as can be, and I’ve never sharpened it in 7 years–probably toss it if it ever gets dull . . .
Hi Greg,
I’ve just gone harder and harder with my smaller knives–and pay more and more.
If they work for you, and you do seem to enjoy that dabblage, go get 'em, bud!
I actually like those serrated knives. I bet that Vic won’t wear out. Hopefully, you’ll just get sick of it and I’ll find it in a resale shop. 
They’re good for opening Amazon boxes, too.
This much is true-hoo! I use a Victorinox pocket knife; but if the box gets up to the kitchen. Zip! right through.
I can maintain my two 6" serrated utility knives with a strop, but not my Vic clone–with the super serrations.
The 6" serrated are really disguised single bevel knives–and it took me years to figure that out.
For me, Meekah, it’s because my tools need to work together.
Before I bought my Wusthof Classic Ikon, my inexpensive Victorinox clone paring knife was all I needed. Once I got the Wusthof, it didn’t fit any more–and my Wusthof Precison seemed like a perfect complement–and now I use it every day.
My Ken Onion Slicer led me to get the Ken Onion Detail knife as a complement.
That’s how I ended up with more expensive paring knives–rthough I did manage to get them as close-outs.!
Hi Ray,
Yes I saw you there posting - good for you to join that club! Since you’ve become so enamoured with knives these days, it seems a logical place for you.
But I don’t share your observation that there are ‘so many relative newbies’ on kkf - what gave you that idea? The fact perhaps that a lot of them do not share the same beliefs and ideas as you about knives?
If anything I find the people at kkf very knowledgeable and friendly. And unlike chowhound and now HO where there are maybe a handful of people with something interesting to say, on kkf there are dozens of them. A lot of professional chefs from all over the world, including sushi chefs working in Japan.
Most of my knife purchases have found their origin at kkf, eg I saw how many Japanese sushi chefs in Japan actually use Masamoto, whereas in the west this brand is seen as a little ‘inferior’ because too obvious. Also my Watanabe came inspired by kkf, which turned out a great buy.
Imho the people on kkf are more knowledgeable regarding knives than anyone I have ever seen over at chowhound and now HO. Though funnily enough they don’t seem to be that knowledgeable on cookware.
But like any forum there will be people with esoteric tastes on the one hand and normal home cooks on the other hand.
If you’d just focus on the ‘practical needs of home cooks’ then the most obvious answer is to just stick with brands like Victorinox and Kiwi, and then see Wusthof as an esoteric choice. Where is the fun in that??
Even you seem to have evolved much further than what is practically needed in a home kitchen, given the amount and diversity of knives you have been buying.
Hi damiano,
I’ve lurked at KKF from my earliest days in developing my hobby–linked in through Google searches about specific knives (especially Shun)–but found their criticism flawed and partisan–at best. I did join BladeForums long ago–especially for their information on materials. Great site. I do post there from time to time.
I decided to join KKF to test the process very recently–and the credentials of their “gurus” (who post a lot)–and found many who’d been members for only a few years–and credentials as knife sharpeners and “grinders.” I was immediately asked to be a “sponsor” by “Edge” as soon as I joined.
Remember, I’ve been there–been in Japanese homes. I also have a Japanese collaborator who’s worked in Japanese restaurants in Japan visiting me weekly now. He goes back to Japan to visit family regularly. We’ve been together since the beginning 7 years ago. In the last three years, I’ve been in regular email contact with Chef Panko–who’s also been to Japan and met with several of the “names” of supposed masters–even bought knives from them.
The real problem with knives promoted on KKF is price. The usual retailer markup is double (plus shipping/import if to a store), over a marketer distributor price which is double again what the maker gets (and he must pay for materials and at least rent facilities). The manufacturer/guru is only getting about 1/4 of what is paid for his knife back in Japan. So, the $300 knife bought through KKF sponsors, nets him $75–which is about the price when I would consider one of these artisan knives seriously. It’s not a good business model for him–and support for such craftsmanship at home in Japan is not what you might expect.
However, IMO, they are technology throwbacks, so I’d still only be looking at them as art (well worth preserving) rather than in tune with cultural fusion. What worries me most is that most of the supposed Japanese artisans show very limited training or advanced education–you don’t see very many cad/cam computer systems laying around–until you go to an AliExpress site.
Sorry to be so repetitive.
Ray…I think most people are very happy with their Victorinox, their Sabatiers, their MAC or even their Kiwi knives. They are perfectly adequate, and do the job…and for knives like the Kiwi’s and the Victorinox, the price is right. I think a budget conscious chef could outfit a kitchen with those knives, some Lodge cast iron, and a variety of non stick pots, and turn out wonderful food.
But that’s not the point.
There are some people, hobbyists, collectors that LIKE custom knives, and love to use hand made tools. You’re right, a lot of artisan knife makers dont have a formal education, they dont use CAD/CAM design and devices, but they make wonderful tools that are meant to be used. Every knife maker has their favorite steel…why? Because it’s what they make their best knives with. Ernest Emerson uses 154cm to make his knives. Bob Dozier uses D2. Shosui Takeda uses Aogami Super. Yes, there are better more high tech steels, but those guys are masters at what they use. They make and use what works best for them, and their users.
I’m a knife collector, and have been for many many years. I buy, use, carry, and even abuse both production and custom knives. I prefer to buy and use knives made by people I know or who I have met. I have met and talked with Shosui Takeda at numerous knife shows over the years…I buy and use his knives. I have had numerous conversations over the years with Joel Bukiewicz…I own and use his Cut Brooklyn knives. For over 25 years I have carried and used an Emerson CQC6 pocket knife…Why? Ernie and Mary Emerson are friends of mine.
I think most people dont care about the design, or the steel, they care about if it works or not. Sabatier, Global, and other “high end” knives are decent knives, but many of them are popular because of their long standing reputation, or a very active promoting…and people will continue to buy them, thinking they are great knives, because of those reasons.
But me, and I am sure a lot of others, both here, on KKF, and those who follow kitchen knife makers will continue to seek out knives by folks like Shosui Takeda, Watanabe, Shibata, Murray Carter and Joe Bukiewicz. Why? They’re not good knives…they’re great knives…and because using them is an absolute joy. Knife makers are some of the last of the hand tool makers…and a good knife is a joy to carry and use.
Can you go into one specific case at KKF? Not to agree or disagree, but what is a definite example?
Hi Chem,
A new member filled out the KKF Questionnaire describing interests that sounded very similar to me when I started my collection, so I indicated that I purchased a Wusthof Classic Ikon five years ago and it worked out very well for me.
The KKF “guru” said that “the Wusthof sucked”
When I challenged his analysis, he repeated his claim in a very confrontational way.
Sounds like this so called KKF Guru doesn’t know much about knives, if he seriously says Wüsthof knives suck.
I wouldn’t want to waste more time on such a jerk.
But that is one person?
Hi Wabi,
CCK is passable for collectors like you, but BladeForums is better, IMO.
I’m not a collector, and I’m interested in technology and cultural developments–especially cultural fusion. I’m mostly interested in the experiences of home cooks who are both budget conscious and interested in exploring new ideas.
Hi Chem,
You asked for a specific example. You can read through the comments of these guys yourself. I’ve been reading crap like this for years as a lurker.
Ray…I have not been an active member of KKF for a long time, but like you, was a long time lurker. BladeForums has been around for a long time…I think I may still be a member, but left there around 2001 or so…it too was full of too many self appointed experts and trolls, with very inconsistent moderating. A group left there and went on to form The Usual Suspect Network. It originally was for knife makers, collectors, and fans of Ernie Emerson’s knives, but has evolved into so much more. I like it because there are a lot of experienced knife makers there who know their craft, and are willing to participate and contribute. We do talk about kitchen knives a bit there, but kitchen knives are not a primary focus of the forum.
Hi Wabi,
I’ve only posted a few times in Kitchen knife forums, so I haven’t dealt with moderation. I have gotten quite a bit of information about materials–and followed a few very interesting stories there about kitchen knife design attempts–over the past few years
Yes, I saw that thread. You do have a point here, he was a bit unfriendly. Look, KKF is like coming to a cookware forum and seeing 25 people discussing copper cookware all the time, discussing copper thicknesses and history of makers.
It’s the same on kkf - put a lot of experts together and they will focus on the marginal benefits. With knives that is the grind and thinness behind the edge. Therefore you will see a tendency on kkf for people advising to buy knives with hard steel being thin behind the edge (or sharpening to become thin behind the edge).
That is what happened: the guy said he thinks Wusthofs suck beause of having soft steel and being thick behind the edge. And then some other guy suggested buying the Takamura R2, a thin laser.
Your suggestion of a Wusthof is like answering every cookware advice thread with ‘you should buy MadeIn’. Not that it is a poor choice, but different people like different things.
By the way, you can be confrontational too. The cleaver thread on kkf is full of normal people who don’t automatically favour lasers. And then you come in and say that you haven’t seen any interesting knives being discussed so far with the thread going on for over 2 years.
Anyway, I still think you should try out the Robert Herder carbon steel paring knife. This is the closest you will get to a high end Japanese laser for a low price. Then you will have a better understanding of how a really thin knife cuts and why people rave about it.
This is true - but also why I love Japanese knives. Technology and cad-cam do not necessarily result in better cookware. But we are different - you like induction with precise temperature control, and I like copper cookware and old fashioned gas ovens.
But the worrying truth is that the skill necessary to make excellent J knives is dying out, and the future could well be Chinese mass produced knives. They may even be excellent, but imho they lack soul.
Look at this video showing a famous maker called Toyama. Rumour has it that he is the one making Watanabe gyutos, so mine is made by him. He is in his 80s. His knives become more expensive by the day because people think he won’t be making knives soon anymore.
