I see the Yelp link, but that might not be current.
Does he have a website and current menu?
Scallops and saffron risotto, Hoisin braised short ribs, pumpkin ravioli – this is the kind of stuff I’d order from a NYC ghost kitchen for delivery for a teenager’s sleepover. It’s not good enough, nearly good enough, for a star.
But let me be clear – this isn’t to say he couldn’t do much more. Those are menu items that pay bills. There’s nothing wrong with that. At all. The problem is that hundreds of restaurants can cook these dishes. There’s just not a lot there to really pique interest. Maybe one or two items.
It’s just objectively not world class cuisine. I’m sorry. It’s not my fault. If you think it is, then you’re making the point I was trying to make yesterday and today – you’re not exposed to enough really great food to know the difference. I’m sorry about that too, but it’s clear that’s the case. If that Yelp menu is your touchstone to world-class cuisine you’re unfortunately a bit lost in the weeds. Fly to L.A. or Seattle. Or go the other direction to Japan or S. Korea, Vietnam. Something.
I’m seeing flights from Honolulu to Vietnam for less than 500 bucks. If I lived in Hawaii you couldn’t keep me out of S.E. Asia.
You’re silly. You asked for a menu, and–shock–it’s not good enough for you. This exchange started with you talking shit about Hawai’i being a culinary wasteland. That’s manifestly not the case.
By your logic, you should only dine at places that place high on La Liste. Interesting that, in the top 60 scored places on LL, Le Bernadin is the only one in NYC. There are more in California! In fact, there are only a small number of NYC restarants that scored AT ALL on La Liste. How many are on Ibiza?
See, https://www.laliste.com/en/laliste/world I’ll wait.
But back to Josselin… How many Beard nominations do you have, Charlie? The real point here is you didn’t even try to have a great food experience in Hawai’i. Instead, you fled with your preconceived ideas. What happened to you droning on about the paramount importance of quality ingredients? Would you prefer that your yellowfin be served right off the boat or be shuttled between airports a hemisphere away?
The best you can apparently do is post a barely middling Yelp menu from a closed restaurant with which to make your case. I admitted to not keeping up with Hawaii – pretty much asking you outright to fill me in on the high end and this is is it?
Picking mine up… as someone who spent my first 30+ years in L.A., I am reasonably certain I have been to quite a few Michelin star restaurants… but the the only two I can definitely recall had one or more stars were Michael’s (pretentious and meh) and Chinois (good). But honestly, I have had as good or better meals from some mom & pop shops located in strip malls.
So IMHO if you’re only seeking out places that “others” have highly rated, you’re missing out. There are so many tremendous places out there that have not been looked at for any awards (other than maybe a good review from a local journalist) I think it may be worthwhile for you to consider dismounting your high horse.
No, you should stop gratuitously insulting everyone and every cuisine in view. People from cultures and cuisines that enjoy dip are dipshits? A state with many fine restaurants is a culinary wasteland? You even called it a cultural wasteland. Not only don’t you know what you don’t know, you don’t even try to find out. You’d rather hurl insults about unrelated things like sports. Knock it off.
I have read this to and fro with interest. I find super high end dining kind of hit or miss. It is usually impeccably prepared with the finest imaginable ingredients and served with beautiful and dramatic plating. It is pushing the edge of new uses of ingredients new and old. Every now and then it is revelatory, but to many, probably most, tastes, it is not satisfying. Most of us are far happier with something out of Les Halles or some great dish from a cuisine we already know and love (for me that would probably be Mexican, Italian, French, Vietnamese, Indian, or Moroccan). Perfectly prepared dishes of those sorts … a amazing mole, an impeccable osso buco, a rogan josh, quenelles Nantua, or bun cha ga…are gastronomic heaven, and they deserve to be labeled as truly great, but they are dishes with long histories and wide familiarity. The guy jockeying for his first star is far more likely to be using ingredients many westerners disdain and techniques that transform those ingredients into things hard to identify, like last decade’s love affair with molecular gastronomy. Often those pushing the envelope dishes are fun but not likely to become classics. Think Marco White’s blanquette of scallops and langoustines with cucumber and ginger. I find it bizarre that cooking shows focus so heavily on the maillard reaction. I love it, but it smothers very subtle spices and delicate vegetables.
Mostly a miss for me. For me Mexican is king of assembled dishes that include proteins, salads, sauces, and carbs… and this is what modern high end tries to do with other stuff, but it rarely works out anywhere near as well. (c;
Part of me is irritated by Charlie’s hubris. Maybe nobody is as good as he thinks he is.
Or maybe he is from a class of chefs with whom I have scarcely communicated. Maybe his palate has been trained by dozens of starred restaurants and star-level establishments, and as a result he has experience to which most others on this forum simply are not exposed.
While his broad generalizations about entire regions and nations may be brusque oversimplifications, his description of the attitude it takes to achieve a Michelin star rings true.
The limitations of interacting through this medium make it impossible for us to fully assess one another’s relative expertise. Charlie sure seems to assert authority, which may be informed by expertise or in part a personality trait. As far as I’m concerned, he can have whatever authority he wants. I prefer to approach from the other end of the spectrum, to assume others know things I do not. Treading from his approach, even on matters where I have bona fide expertise, has for me proven risky so I have abandoned it.
I’ve eaten at two Michelin starred establishments on a trip to Paris in 2019. They were both fantastic. They did take unusual ingredients and transform them into unusual forms and tastes. Nothing I ate seemed like it could become a classic as Tim pointed out. And I agree that many familiar pedestrian dishes are magnificent classics to my palate, but maybe I’d think otherwise if I was exposed to Charlie’s environment. Growing up my teenage sleepovers were full of chili dogs and Costco pizza.
Despite my background, there are many dishes I’d feel comfortable cooking for just about anybody. These taste better to me than most anything I can buy even at the nicer restaurants around me in Northern California, not only because of mastery of some basic techniques but also through the acquisition and use of the most premium ingredients.
Alas, would that we could meet in this physical realm to lovingly offer and partake of one another’s culinary arts.
I find most people here, including Charlie and Kaleo for sure, offer very worthwhile insights and nuggets, but you usually need to follow someone awhile to get a sense of their perspective on things to make the most of their points. You are among my most respected sources here. As you note, mastery of basic techniques plus absolutely incredible ingredients used in making dishes that are established classics is a formula for better food by far than you will find in most restaurants. I would love to sample pretty much everyone’s cooking.
As regards Charlie’s bona fides, the tips he offers on technique are often the sorts of things that are not taught in many cooking schools, are unknown by most home cooks, and are used in very fine restaurants that take their food very seriously. His tips on braises are a great example.
This thread has offered some absolutely wonderful thread drift, and I thank the mods! Cheers!
Ok, I have been pondering my Sunday order at La Posada. I am going with a shredded chicken enchilada with mole and another with salsa verde. This will be my dominant train of thought all weekend!
I assume your name denotes living in Pollock Pines. My aunt and uncle lived there, and we always visited there on our regular summer trips to Fallen Leaf. Good times in beautiful places!
