I am not disagreeing with the fact that chefs should be taking care not to introduce unwarranted flavours, but just a word on Michelin ratings:
You can’t really compare Michelin standards across regions - a one Michelin star in Europe is VERY different than a one star in Asia. I am living in Singapore at the moment, and we have one star hawkers stalls here with next to zero service. Back in Copenhagen your food AND your service has to be good to get a star. So if your expectations of what a one star restaurant should be are formed by European standards, you will sometimes find yourself disappointed here in Asia.
Interesting - I thought the level of service and quality of food were universally comparable between Michelin star restaurants across the globe.
No matter what - if I pay €80 for a chicken chow mein at a Chinese restaurant and specifically ask for it to not have any seafood flavours nor seafood sauces in it, and they take my order and my money, the restaurant has to deliver and serve just that.
Back on the previous sub-topic, I believe the seafood taste is probably from condiments like fish sauce (which they should not have) instead of ghosting from a wok. Have you been to other Chinese restaurants? Do you always taste seafood from their wok cookings?
There is yet another possibility: The wok isn’t even getting thoroughly rinsed, scrubbed and dried between firing seafood and the next dish. The house is full, they’re short a cook, and the orders are stacking up…
You gonna let one crabby Dane run your restaurant?
Maybe, if that Dane is right and I am trying to protect a good reputation. If I am just churning out food for a not very choosy crowd, charging low enough prices that I really need to max my turnover, maybe not. I have been to small, high quality restaurants that told me before seating that they were short staffed that night and turn around would be slower than normal. I accepted that shortcoming and passed the time with a glass of wine and an appetizer.
In the initial post, I thought Claus was talking about street foods, but if Claus is saying €80 for one chicken chow mein (even €40), then it is on the high end pricing for any country.
Anyway, if it is because they added fish/shrimp sauce or if they did not thoroughly rinsed the wok, then neither is about “carbon steel and cast iron absorbed too much flavor and ghosting the next dish”
The other thing is that… maybe a different level of expectation too. Claus said no seafood flavor, and … the kitchen may only took it as no seafood. Like you said, someone may have just rinsed and wash a wok a little, but not thoroughly, so now, it has no any visible seafood, but a sensitive nose like Claus may still able to smell something.
In this case, it is a wok, but I wonder the same problem with many barbacue places, they tend to put all the food in one big grill/pit.
Lots of short order cooks like a well seasoned griddle with carryovers from breakfast meats and hash browns into the lunchtime burgers and dinner minute steaks. Plus, of course, grilled onions. I am in their camp.
I have been to several Chinese restaurants - abroad and in Copenhagen.
I don’t always get the ‘fishy’ taste from the dishes I order at Chinese restaurants - only once in a while,
My idea is, that if you have made a dish containing seafood just before and you only rinse the pan once in hot water, it isn’t always enough to get rid of the intense seafood flavours thus you risk the next dish you prepare in the pan/wok will get flavours from the previous dish made in the pan/wok.
This is why I personally think restaurants should have different pans for the different things they make during a service in a restaurant or they risk mixing flavours between the dishes they make during service.
So 1 pan for seafood and 1 pan for steaks/meat and 1 pan for vegetables - unless they want the fond from the meat pan or seafood pan to mix with the vegetables they saute of course, and in that case I would use the same pan and only deglaze the pan quickly.
But if you have served a shrimp chow mein first, then quickly rinse the pan in hot water, then continue to make chicken chow mein in the same pan - you will have a high risk of getting a shrimp flavour into the chicken chow mein dish in my opinion.
If the guest is allergic to seafood or don’t want a chicken chow mein with a distinct shrimp flavour using the same pan for both dishes without rinsing it properly in between making the two dishes is an amateur mistake by the chef.
I’m a firm believer in that carbon steel pans hold on to flavours more than stainless steel pans - that’s my personal experience at least after using both type pans for many years.
I remember that conversation and I remember thinking you were talking about street vendors, and I said that is difficult for a street vendor. I guess I didn’t know you were at a restaurant charging for €40-80. I think the challenge of one pan for one type of food is that eventually they like to mix these foods together and cook again. For example, they may cook the beef first, and then cook the vegetables, but then they finally get one last cook mixed together with the noodle.
I think your point is well taken about the seafood. They probably need one cookware never see seafood, and another cookware never see either meat/fish (to be vegetarian).
I do think carbon steel and cast iron pans do hold more flavor than stainless steel pans. For one there is a seasoning layer which can absorb some fragrance and on top of that, aggressive cleaning solutions cannot be used on carbon steel or cast iron cookware.
I am sure most of us like that too. How many times I like to cook my steak/bruger first and use the residue oil to pan fry the veggie or toast the bread. Still Claus’s point is well taken that… this may work well on a personal level, but not for a high end restaurant trying to cater to people with many different preference.
For the diners you are talking about, say a Waffle House griddle… or mom and pop diners… food residue transfer is unavoidable. You can carefully wash individual pans, but there is no way on a big griddle
WoW Chemicalkinetics rarely do I agree with a post 100%, but here I just have to agree 100%.
It’s complicated for street fodd truck to handle several types of pans for different type dishes, but as said if I ever would have my own humble little food truck, I would still make sure to have 2 woks for seafood only and 2 woks for other type dishes.
If you cook the noodles in one wok, then add it to the seafood dish in the other wok, you can still have them separated from each other without risking getting the seafood flavour in to other type dishes made in the 3.rd and 4.th wok.
Woks are cheap, so it should be possible for street food vensors to also take care and respect their customers by not mixing shrimps into a chicken chow mein, unless the dish calls for a mix of shrimps and chicken.
I know very well, that all chow mein dishes probably have some kind of oyster suace and fish sauce in them, but rarely do I find these subtle sauces will come through in the dish making it taste fishy.
Unless they use a shrimp paste of course - which I find has a VERY strong taste.
I also agree about the carbon steel pans holding onto flavours more than stainless steel pans - as you say because their seasoning layer can absorb some of the flavours and as you also so wisely state - you can’t really wash a carbon steel 100% aggressively without risking removing parts of the seasoning, at least you seem to be more careful when washing a carbon steel pans than when you wash a stainless steel lined pan.
My experience with Waffle House has been great – when I used to go to Waffle Houses in my two years of post doc (in Georgia) and also later in Virginia, the experience has been great. When I was a post doc, I must have stopped by a Waffle House at least once a month – especially when I stay late at night and they are the few places open late at night. Waitstaffs and the cooks are always nice. I wonder if Waffle House has changed that much since 2000-2010.
No change in Texas. Dang, I just had a terrific dinner of a broiled lamb chop, haricots vert tossed in butter, and a salad of wedged Campari tomatoes, marinated artichoke hearts, crumbled bleu cheese, and a balsamic vinaigrette, and now all I can think about is WAFFLES!
