Thanks, Claus. Do you find yourself using the high sided or the normal ones most? I always found the prolines to be fairly “deep” - how do they compare?
Hi Alexander,
It’s a bit weird, since 24 cm should be 24 cm.
But here is my advice.
I use the Alu Pro 28 cm high sided frying pan more than the regular Alu Pro 28 cm frying pan.
BUT the Alu Pro 24 cm high sided frying pan, I gave it to my father since it was too small for my needs. I then instead bought the Mauviel M’STONE non stick 24 cm sauter pan as a replacement for the Alu Pro 24 cm high sided frying pan.
I typically use my Alu Pro 28 cm and 24 cm regular frying pan for several fried eggs, brunch in general, frikadeller, medister, sausages, krebinetter/karbonader, omelette and crepes.
I just bought the Alu Pro 20 cm regular frying pan and will use that for 1-2 fried eggs, when I reheat smaller things and for blinis.
If I was you I would I would buy this:
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Demeyere Alu Pro 28 cm HIGH frying pan - you can use it for all the same things as the regular 28 cm frying pan and then more like pasta dishes, rice pilaf and even stewed spinach and stewed kale.
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Demeyere Alu Pro 24cm & 28cm regular frying pan set
The Alu Pro 24cm HIGH frying pan can certainly be used, just don’t think it can hold as much as a 24 cm saucier or sauter pan. It can’t and it’s not even close.
Thanks, Claus. Super helpful. I definitely don’t see them as replacements for my sauté. Love my stainless one way too much 
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No, but nice try at sounding superior.
The point is that wok cooking worldwide is overwhelmingly done in seasoned CS woks. If you can be taken seriously about flavor ghosting and your superhuman taste perception, that would seem to preclude you enjoying most food cooked in woks. Am I stereotyping now?
For what it’s worth, a real supertaster isn’t a master of discernment anyway. They make poor wine judges and somms, because they overly favor light, non-tannic wines. What characterizes a supertaster is a sensitivity (some would say oversensitivity) to bitter compounds.
Hyperosmia is the olfactory version of the supertaster, and that’s not all good, either.
Flavor “ghost” is probably real, but how does it affect most people is an interesting point. Beside the carbon steel and cast iron woks you are talking about, there are also many cooking done with clay based cookware which also can absorb flavors. So I guess the question is how strong is the flavor ghosting and also how bad is it.
Lucas just did an episode for Bon Appetit on Hong Kong clay pot rice spot. Of course, this is street foods, nothing fancy about clay pot rice dishes.
We Went to Hong Kong’s Number 1 Clay Pot Rice Spot - Street Food Tour with Lucas Sin | Bon Appétit - YouTube
This is an interesting point you two are talking about. In fact, the use of porous clay teapot is a big discussion.
These clay cookware will absorb even more flavor then carbon and cast iron cookware.
I think we can move from the question of “Are most Asians using carbon steel woks?” to simply “Are cooking done in carbon steel/cast iron/clay cookware inferior in taste than stainless steel cookware?”
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Although I dearly love many Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Korean, and Nepalese dishes, virtually all of the stir fries I have enjoyed might leave ghost flavors but they would most of the time be umami notes unlikely to be unduly jarring. Whenever I get seafood in those cuisines it tends to be in poached in a broth, steamed, or baked. I really cannot think of anything other than shrimp and crab that seemed as if they had visited a wok, and those were shell on and in savory saucing or glazing.
I can definitely fit into the group of people being able to taste ‘ghost flavours’ in dishes.
I made a post here on Hungryonion a year or so ago, which many downvoted and replied to with resent and - in my honest and sincere opinion - a lack of proper understanding of what I was exposed to, most likely because I wasn’t able to explain it in proper understandable English, but also because certain people just really enjoy to feel offended and discriminated.
I ordered a chicken chow mein at a 5 star hotel in a 1 star Chinese Michelin restaurant at a hotel in Bangkok, Thailand - and I thoroughly explained that I don’t tolerate fish and shellfish beforehand.
Yet the Chicken chow mein, which I saw the chef make in a carbon steel wok in front of me, had a very distinct flavour of shrimp or crab. It could be a ‘ghost flavour’ or it could be the amateurish lack of talent or respect for the customer - fact is, that I was served a chicken fried noodles with a very present flavours of seafood in it.
I have since that experienced that several times in less luxurious places like common street food places.
I order a dish and stress thoroughly that I don’t want any kind of seafood flavour (so no fish sauce, no shrimp paste and no oyster sauce in it) yet I’m served a dish with very distinct seafood flavours in it, whether I ordered pork, veal or chicken.
I’m in agreement with Charlie, ghost flavours from well seasoned carbon steel pans is indeed a problem for certain people with well developed sensitive taste buds.
I order (unshelled) crab fried rice a lot.
I think it’s more likely you were served Chinese dishes that included a touch of shrimp powder, probably with too much trimethylamine oxide (TMAO).
Also, people can train themselves, intentionally or not, to have lower taste thresholds for certain compounds. One is TCA, the compound responsible for corked wines. It’s been proven that if you sample strong TCA concentrations, your sensitivity can go up (down?) to near 1ppt. These unfortunate souls end up not enjoying many quite enjoyable wines. I think this may also happen with fish that contain TMAO.
Well in that case my father and wife suffers from it also.
They also found the food tasted fishy…….hmmmm
I also love my PLY and copper sauter pans, but for certain things like frittatta a non stick sauter pan rules.
That’s consistent with what I suggested.
I also meekly suggest that, if ghosting distracting flavors is as strong and awful as Charlie claims, a starred restaurant would do everything possible to avoid it, including eliminating CS woks.
Just so you know, fish and shellfish aren’t the only foods that contain TMAO.
Here’s Pierre Kaufman using CS: Think he throws away the pan because it ghosts? Think he’d never cooked eggs or fish in it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73hH87tmPZY
Here’s Eric Ripert posting about cleaning Le Bernadin’s CS pans: https://twitter.com/ericripert/status/239081795906310144
There are hundreds of videos of eminent chefs of the highest level using it. Why would they do it if ghosting is such a problem?
I don’t think ghosting in raw iron pans is a problem, if you just avoid cooking seafood in the same pan as you cook meat in.
I have posted dozens of videos here and on Chowhound of chefs using carbon steel pans in professional settings, so I totally acknowledge that they are great searing pans.
However I still don’t see them used that often in professional settings for other things, other than high heat searing. That’s also where I as a home amateur cook found they had their strengths and not so much in other areas.
The chef probably just added fish sauce/shrimp paste/oyster sauce even though you had told them not to. These flavours are so omnipresent in a lot of SE Asian cooking that they just can’t imagine not using them.
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Those little blue crabs done on a griddle in a Vietnamese restaurant, loaded with black pepper and oil, are a literal hot mess but so delicious!
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There’s a vid of Tom Colluccio sauteeing brussel sprouts in one I found yesterday.
Charlie made it sound like top chefs don’t use CS because of ghosting, when many certainly do, including names that he likes to drop.
I totally understand your rust aversion and preference for a more even pan. Those are perfectly valid choices.
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I think you’re right, Damiano.
It’s like when you order a pastrami sandwich without cheese. They so often just put the cheese in anyway, because they are so used to it.
Still I expect a chef at a 1 star Michelin restaurant to pay better attention. We all make mistakes, but when I pay €80 for a freakin chicken chow mein (specifically ordered without any kind of seafood flavour nor seafood flavoured sauce) at a 1-star Chinese Michelin restaurant I expect a totally perfect chow mein without seafood taste in it.
The same happened at another restaurant I visited in 2019 in Bangkok.
I was tired of eating Thai food for 3 weeks straight and wanted a well seared ribeye steak. I ordered it specifically without any seafood flavour nor seafood sauce. Just butter and garlic and thyme. Medium rare.
What I got was a destroyed well done seared ribeye steak cut into small wok like pieces and with a distinct shrimp flavour. That was also at a 1-star Michelin restaurant.
If you serve European food at a top Michelin star restaurant at least have the decency to listen to the guests order and as a bare minimum know how to prepare a proper steak.
If I opened a Thai restaurant in Copenhagen you better believe I would travel to Thailand several times to learn how to make proper Thai food and learn their techniques in and out so I would be able to serve traditionally made Thai food in Copenhagen. You better believe it.
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There can be arrogance involved, too. Some chefs are offended when patrons ask for changes to the ways they make X, so they just do it their usual way. F 'em.
IME, shrimp paste or powder is oftentimes added (in small quantities) strictly to boost umami, much like adding a drip or two of Tabasco, a bloop of anchovy paste, or a pinch of mushroom powder. For me, success in this is defined in keeping the individual adds below the identifiable taste thresholds.
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Yeah. I think that theory was mentioned in the previous thread.
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