I would say no. Some steel are so hard that the edge dont roll.
I can’t say how hard the Fdick steels are. But my guess would be that the hardness on them can be different from model to model. But i know that on there 61hrc VG12 series knives. They advice to use there titanium or diamond rods.
If the edge doesn’t roll over, not even on a microscopic level, the knife should in theory never lose its sharpness.
While the ZDP-189 holds an edge extremely well I still believe honing it with my fine ceramic rod and my ultra fine Dickoron steel i do feel it clearly helps revitalise the edge on the ZDP-189 knife.
According to a F.Dick rep I’ve been communicating with all the Dickoron steels are Rockwell 66-67 in hardness. So that explains why it works without micro chipping the edge.
All other honing steels on the market that I know of are not even close to 66-67 Rockwell hardness so I believe that explains why it is advice to avoid using honing steels on harder steel Japanese knives.
No… not all edges roll.
Rolling edges are the nature of relative soft steels.
When a steel reaches a certain hardness. An edge won’t roll, but simply be worn away over time.
The fact that an edge don’t roll, doesn’t mean it will stay sharp for ever. It will dull when the edge is worn away. Just much slower then a soft edge will roll.
A prove to that theory is the fact that an edge on a soft knife can’t be realigned forever. Sooner or later the honing steel is no longer working, and the knife needs a real sharpening. That is when you know your edge is worn out. Also on a soft knife.
I’m not questioning your good results with honing your Miyabis on a steel. But I’m pretty sure that whatever happens. You ain’t realigning a rolled edge.
A ceramic rod is a whole different thing. It is practically a sharpening stone in the shape of a rod. And will by all logic work perfectly on your Miyabis.
Dick steels are a minimum of 66 RC hardness. The ZDP knives I see are all 65 RC.
There is a fallacy that is common that one metal softer than another will not abrade or cut the harder metal. So even if a given ZDP198 knife is as hard or slightly harder than a steel, wear will occur. The clearest example of this is burnishing a hardened toolsteel edge with a brass rod.
Now, it may be dumb to risk chipping out a 65-67 RC blade on a steel (especially if you do the crazy TV Chef/Gordon Ramsay slap method). I leave that to you to consider.
My two most powerful knives are the steel meat knife and the kitchen knife, and of course, I have used a ceramic knife, which feels very textured.
But when it comes to other swords, I still quite like Japanese samurai swords.
Salute from a veteran. 
I agree that a steel honing rod can be used on a hard steel like ZDP189. By saying “can” i still believe that its far from optimal.
I also a agree that a soft metal still has en effect on harder steels. Just like a soft piece of leather can maintain an edge.
But I will still claim that when using a steel honing rod on a hard steel like ZDP189. You ain’t realigning a rolled edge. Your are keeping an edge by removing material.
That is also the reason why I think a leather block or high grit sharpening stone is a better way to maintain an edge. It’s easier to keep the right angle and pressure on the edge compared to a rod.
In the end, we should all do whatever works for each one of us. If using a steel honing rod on a powder steel knife works satisfying for you. Keep doing what works for you.
Sure, use what you want. Ray claimed he used green chrome on a leather strop for everything. Awhile back, I think I convinced Claus to try steels.
I’ve made a lot of blades using sintered steel. ATS-34/CM154 was my usual choice.
I think it was you who convinced me and Damiano who inspired me to start using honing steels in a thread on the old Chowhound where Damiano asked about honing steels and in particular about Dickoron honing steels, because Dickoron honing steels pretty much are the best honing steels in the world quality wise, specification wise and variation wise.
It immediately sparked my interest and I began searching for information about honing steels and in that process also found out about ceramic honing rods and how they work differently compared to more traditional honing steels.
I found a Danish reseller of Dickoron honing steels and I embarrassingly have to admit I bought not just one but 4 different Dickoron honing steels.
I still own them today and they still look brand new even though I use one or two of them daily year round.
If you look into a pro chefs knife bag at a restaurant you’ll see an abundance of different knife brands, but the two things that you’ll see time after time in pretty much all pro chefs knife bags is some sort of Microplane grater and a Dickoron honing steel.
I also found another German brand that makes ceramic honing rods in high quality and purchased 3 ceramic honing rods from them - a Combi rod with a #3000 grit and a #800 grit and two of each in #3000 grit and #800 grit.
The ceramic honing rods has worked wonderfully for me in combination with one of my Dickoron honing steels.
It works so well that I rarely have to use my whetstones these days. I have become so accustomed to using the ceramic rods in combination with the honing steels that my knives stay ultra sharp all the time endlessly without needing to be sharpened on an actual whetstone.
If I can cut a piece a thin paper with ease in a straight smooth cut my knives are ultra sharp and more than sharp enough for my needs in the kitchen.
However I do plan on investing in 4 of the newly released Naniwa Chosera Pro Diamond whetstones in grit #800, #2000, #3000 and #5000 to tame my really hard steel knives and also just to see how they feel compared to my older Naniwa Chosera Pro regular whetstones.
Claus, for those who are unfamiliar with steels that cut (sharpen or hone, you choose), can you describe the FEEL of running a knife edge over one?
I think what most non-users miss is that a knife edge being run against a steel or ceramic rod is a single point-on-point contact, which generates a very large psi force. It may not feel like much, but it is, relative to a flat stone and the flattish portions of an edge.
Hi Claus, which ones do you actually use and what is your routine?
Before I continue, I have to say something regarding the rumours surrounding honing steels and honing rods.
I’ve read countless of advices and warnings on various knife sharpening forums against using honing steels at all and ceramic honing rods in particular.
Either I’m lucky in that it came quite easy to me or people tend to exaggerate how hard it really is to do correctly to avoid ruining the edge of the knife.
I’m also a traditional wet shaver using DE edge razors, brush and shaving soaps. I remember being told to shave at a 30° angle to start out with. It was the ideal angle to shave with a DE razor of standard aggression.
How the heck can you first of all see that you shave at 30° and not 38° or 22° ? It’s impossible to see. Secondly all razors don’t shave effectively at 30° angle. I own 25 DE razors and they all have their different sweet spot angle.
What made me a far better DE shaver was throwing all the basic garbage advice out of the window and going freehand. This was back in 2010/2011.
It’s sort of the same with knife sharpening and honing rods.
I find that if I follow an angle and forces my mind and hands to do so it becomes very awkward to sharpening the knife and using the honing rod. So I decided to go by feel.
Just as I did with my DE razors. When do they cut and when do they not cut so well. Today I can freehand with a DE razor and get perfectly smooth shaves.
The same with my kitchen knives and honing rods.
I go by feel and sound when I sharpen and hone my knives.
Is it perfect ? Probably not, but if I feel the burr afterwards and it’s smooth and not more prevalent on either sides of the edge of the knife and the knife cuts a sheet of paper like it was nothing in one smooth motion without any pressure the knife is darn sharp and more than sharp enough to cut even a ripe tomato without any pressure. That’s more than I’ll ever need a knife to be for my home kitchen tasks.
Of course you need a steady hand. But unless you want to actually thin a knife or change its cutting angle (which really takes an expert with experience to do) sharpening on whetstones and using honing steels and honing rods are not that difficult to learn. You just start out with caution and a bit of humbleness (I had to learn the latter part 
)
Using a ceramic honing rod on a kitchen knife is a very smooth feel, but a feel unlike the feel you have on a regular honing steel. You do feel a tiny bit of the ceramic material running against the edge, but it’s not like you can feel material is being removed from the knife. But as you say it’s a very powerful feel, even just using very little pressure on the knife. But it’s still smooth in feel. You can hear the sound it makes while you’re honing the knife, it has to have that specific unique uniform sound. If the sound is off on certain parts of the knife it’s most likely not a great stroke and you need to give it one more go at least.
I would also say it depends on the manufacturer of the ceramic honing rod.
The first ceramic honing rod I bought was the 23 cm dark green Zwilling ceramic honing rod. It worked very nicely, but it was a bit rough in feel, a bit short and round in shape.
I gave it to my father and I now use it when I visit him in combination with the Dickoron Duo honing steel on the Wüsthof Classic Ikon knives I gave him. Works great.
Probably wouldn’t use the Zwilling ceramic honing rod on my more harder steel knives, like the SG2 and ZDP-189 steel. I would guesstimate the grit on the Zwilling ceramic honing rod to be in the #500-#600 region, so pretty rough.
Instead I bought a - to me totally unknown brand called - Ioxio ceramic honing rod called Duo. It’s 26 cm long and has a really nice quality olive wood handle, but what’s more important, the grit is specified.
It’s unique in shape, sort of oval round at the same time.
The white is the fine grit #3000 and the black is the coarse grit #800. It immediately felt great on all my knives.
Real high quality in feel, whether it’s the #800 grit or the #3000 grit I use. The sound it makes and feel of it is this smooth constant low pitch sound.
Hi Damiano,
I own 4 Dickoron honing steels - the square Duo Combi (2 sides classic sapphire and 2 sides polish), the Classic oval 30 cm (sapphire cut), the Micro oval 30 cm and the Polish oval 30 cm.
I own 3 Ioxio ceramic honing rods - the round-oval Duo 26 cm with the olive wood handle (this has two sides with the Fine #3000 grit and two sides with the Coarse #800 grit), the Fine Oval #3000 grit 30 cm and the Coarse oval #800 grit 30 cm.
Unless I’m in a hurry or I only need to prep very little, I normally never use a knife without honing it first.
My routine is this and it’s very constant. If I use 3 knives I’ll hone them all prior to using them. If 4 knives I’ll still hone them all the same way. Even my cheap Dick Blue plastic handle raw meat knives. Same procedure every time.
Unless I use my ZDP-189 knives, then I only use the two ceramic honing rods and the Dickoron Polish honing steel (it’s ultra fine and even though it’s 66-67 Rockwell it feels ultra soft and smooth on the knives edge)
I typically use 4-5 strokes on each side of the blade with every honing steel/rod.
I put a piece of kitchen paper on my cutting board, stand the honing steel/rod up as straight as I can holding the handle of the rod with my left hand and the knife in my right hand pointing the honing rod straight down into the cutting board.
Then I just start at the top of the honing rod and wipe the knife slowly with a bit of pressure down in a straight motion. It has to give this constant low pitch sound or I’ll need to give it a new stroke.
I start out using the coarse #3000 grit ceramic honing rod, then go to the fine #800 grit ceramic honing rod. 4-5 strokes with each honing rod on each side of the knife.
I then proceed to the Dickoron honing steels.
First the Classic (sapphire cut) then the Polish to end it off.
Sometimes I’ll use the Dickoron Micro to finish it off instead of the Polish, if I want a bit of micro serration on my raw meat knives for instance or I’ll even add the Micro as a fifth honing rod, if the knife has been feeling a bit off the last time I used it, just to give it that extra tiny little bit of sharpness and smoothness cutting wise.
Dickoron honing steels
Ioxio ceramic honing rods
Yes, they get a very bum rap. I think this is because of a lack of appreciation for how little pressure is needed, and the damage that can be done doing the “Gordon Ramsay”. Add to this that new users take a few swipes and think nothing is happening, so they apply greater and greater pressure. Then, if the steel is (too) hard and the grind (too) thin, the edge chips and guess what? It’s the steel’s fault, not user error. Hence all the warnings.
Two Beauties
So sad that Sabatier now has their name on such pieces of Crap.
Sabatier as a label is all over the place and certainly on some less than stellar stuff. I find Thiers-Issard (elephant and four stars), Jeune (cluster of grapes), and Acier Fondu Massive Nogent to be excellent. I also hear K Sabatier is good. I would look to Bernal Cutlery as a reliable source, especially their New Vintage.
Tagging along the preceding discussion of steels, I find a good old carbon steel Sabatier sharpened about 2-3 times a year on 500 and 1000 water stones, house brand from Sharpening Supplies, and honing for each use with an F. Dick sapphire (their least aggressive, short of polish) to be a very easy and extremely effective regimen. I got and recommend the oversize stones and a 14" steel. They are virtually a necessity with big knives but also work well with smaller blades. The price jump from the 12" was not huge.
It looks as if F. Dick has juggled the Dickoron lineup, going from less fine to more fine it was regular>fine>sapphire>polish.
Their website(s) have always been confusing about steels.
I’m fascinated by the Multiron line that is two different degrees of cut in one surface. Less pressure = fine cut; more pressure = standard cut.
Here’s a cool old Dick paddle steel from the 1930s. Luxe brass bolster, leather scales, and double ring.
Their website is ok, but still confusing.
The Dickoron steels goes from aggressive to mild like this:
Titan
Classic (sapphire cut)
Micro
Polish
Regardless of nomenclature, it looks as if they added a new one between Sapphire and Polish. I still think Sapphire, used without much pressure, is a great everyday choice.
I think the one you’re talking about is the Micro - that’s the one between Classic (Sapphire cut) and Polish and it’s not exactly brand new as I bought my Dickoron Micro oval 30 cm back in 2020.
Btw as you say the Classic Sapphire cut is an excellent option for daily honing.
I never in a million years thought I would become so fond of honing steels and ceramic honing rods as I have.
They have basically replaced whetstones for me in my kitchen. I do practice on my old Global and Zwilling knives to stay in good shape so I force my muscle memory to be there if and when I occasionally do sharpen one of my favourite knives on whetstones.
