Ahh. that is the problem then. There’s a medical study from China that studies the contact tracing for someone who’s infected and eat with friends at a restaurant. Restaurant staff- not infected- the hypothesis is that exposure duration is not long enough between customers and staff. Friends- some infected. people who sit nearby in the direction of the airflow- some infected. people who sit nearby not in the direction of the airflow- none infected.
Another medical study- not related to restaurants, but similar concept. Infected grocery checkout clerk- chance of infecting customers- 0.2%. chance of infecting family- something like 10%. chance of infecting coworkers- similar but a little lower than that of family.
Thank you. I appreciate it. Two buddies are going home on Friday.
My work involves close proximity and it is near impossible to work long hrs with a small crew but we have been diligent about schedules, gear and cleanliness in ways we never have. We are usually a very motley Crew frankly. We aren’t traveling together right now and instead meeting at the gig. Drags out the shifts but much safer. This diligence has me critical when I see a much more lax industry situation elsewhere.
The uniting factor on HO is we all know how to cook and/or live with someone who can. I’m grateful I don’t have to rely on restaurant meals. Good thing because I haven’t dined out - sidewalk or indoors- since last winter and have no plans to. Yet, I can cook pretty darn well. I wonder if I didn’t know my way around the kitchen whether I’d very likely go to restaurants. I have good friends who often go out to eat but they know I won’t socialize with them now, mask or no mask even at six feet distancing.
We’re all still friends.
Very sorry about your losses. @Rooster
People here are weird, basically they think that only strangers are spreading the virus but not people they personally trust, like friends and families. Big family gatherings and parties are thrown without any protection. But people are forced to wear mask on the streets, in shops etc. Despite all these precautions, new cases are still new high these days. People just forget many never get any symptoms but continue to spread virus. I think the ones that really take precautions seriously are the elderly.
Restaurants reservations are full in hotter places in Paris. Also noticed that smaller independent restaurants that used to close on Sunday, now rotate the days to open Saturday and Sunday but close on Monday and Tuesday.
Does social distancing works? Not if you stay with the infected for more than a few minutes without masks, I believe. Now being more sensitive, I notice even walking on the street, with many tables on the pavement, some people, when talk with enthusiasm, water drops is felt on my arms.
Sad part is I don’t think vaccination will work very well, there are many cases that people repetitively get infected in just in 2-3 months interval.
But despite all that, we are trying to eat out a bit more to get a mental equilibrium.
Yes. I read that and see it mentioned fairly often. What we must remember is that even scientific analysis of a single event is still a single event. It is informative but not deterministic. In the case of a pandemic such analysis should not be dismissed and too many people do just that.
One of the important contributions of that analysis is that it pretty well debunked the “large droplet” theory of transmission and is one of many supporting reports that demonstrate aerosol transmission. The WHO of course (grump) took months to give up on large droplets and surfaces. We should not confuse the potential of a world health organization with the reality of WHO. I digress.
One need not be an HVAC-R design engineer to recognize that a tent in a parking lot is not “outdoors.” One need not be a physicist specializing in fluid dynamics to recognize that outdoors is safER not safe. Unfortunately people are dining out either deluding themselves or oblivious to playing Russian roulette with three bullets in the chambers.
When I first read you sentence I though “here” was HO. I was prepared to heartily agree with you. grin I know I’m weird.
Not unique to your location. We are seeing the same here in the US. There is one member of our extended family deeply offended that our extended bubble (my wife and me, her sister and small family) won’t come to her parties. “But it’s family!” sigh It is a rare day when a wedding, funeral, or backyard barbecue is not tagged as the source for major transmission.
There is a seminal sneeze study from MIT (reporting, not the study at https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/slo-mo-video-shows-just-how-big-sneeze-clouds-can-get-180960257/) that indicates droplets and aerosols out to 27 feet. So much for 6 feet. This study is particularly interesting as it was conducted over several years and published before CV-19. No concerns about methodological shortfalls from a rush to print.
Here in my corner of the world we are at the height of Fall allergy season and entering cold & flu season. Sneezing is common.
Your point, @naf, that viral loading is a factor in transmission does agree with my understanding of the science. Chances of transmission are a factor of both number of viral particles and duration of exposure. While the vocabulary is informal, there is growing consensus that there are indeed “super spreaders” who carry a tremendous amount of the virus and to whom pretty limited exposure carries a big risk. That loud boisterous fellow at the nearest table could easily be a super spreader. Shall we chamber a fourth bullet in the revolver? Or perhaps switch to a semi-automatic?
I will repeat what I have posted before: CV-19 is like an STD. With STDs when you sleep with someone you sleep with everyone they have slept with. With CV-19 when you are exposed to someone you are exposed to everyone they have been exposed to. Family and friends are as likely to transmit the virus to you as anyone else and probably more likely as you would spend more time with them.
Dining out is part of the problem. Be part of the solution.
Of course no one, ever, has changed behavior on the basis of an Internet post, so the foolhardy will continue their behaviors that will drag this pandemic out.
Thank you, @naf. I wish the science was getting through more often and clearly. My Uncle has provided far more info to me than is reported. But, you are right-if ignored anyway the potential for this new normal to become a longer normal is very real. Think of all the activities we enjoy or take for granted that will dramatically change.
Think of the cost to our overall wellness and wallets.
My STD analogy would seem to have been prescient. 65 people at a wedding in Maine led to 175 infections and 7 deaths. None of those who died were at the wedding - they were infected by people who were. Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/15/maine-wedding-covid/?utm_campaign=wp_todays_headlines&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_headlines#comments-wrapper Note paywall but five free articles per month; not sure if free coronavirus article access applies.
In at least one case death was from a tertiary infection – the person who died was infected by someone who was infected by someone who attended the wedding, further proving your point.
Neither in my case (but no offence taken by what might be interpreted by some as perjorative comments).
I assess the risk of restaurants I’m planning to go to, as I assess the risk of everything I do when I leave the safety of our home. And then make an informed decision. There are restaurants we are not going to because they feel insufficiently Covid-secure. Those we have been to have felt fine (broadly speaking) and, with a couple of exceptions, all have been busy.
We (big we) need to hunker down (Dr. Fauci’s recent words) to get in front of this.
Warning: Hyperbole. You can’t fix stupid and even here in the US you can’t shoot it.
We’re acting as we wish everyone else would. They won’t, but we can wish. Dining out is high risk. We’re being especially careful because we know many people are not being careful which will drag out the pandemic. We take succor in the understanding that the only life form on the planet of which there is no shortage are human beings.
Are you? I think in a way or another, everybody is a bit weird, and that makes human interesting.
A recent article I read, saying Covid is like 3 different and separate diseases. Basically it is a disease on disordered immunity system. If you have a healthy immunity system, you won’t be touched, if you are flaw, you are doomed.
France and Spain are quite high up in numbers on this re-run of the virus.
Read it in today´s newspaper …
Everyone likes to voice stupidity and blame the immigrants … However, the ages of the victims are quite young ! From teenagers through 35 or so. They wish to party !
The immigrants do not have money to party ! And they are wearing masks … They are extremely fearful for their children as well …
I hadn’t considered Omega 3 and COVID-19, but I watched an interview with Dr. Paul Marik who devised the MATH+ protocol for COVID-19, and he was recommending Omega 3 because of its ability to repair inflammation damage. Marik said he takes Vit C(he’s always been a big C guy), Quercetin, Melatonin, and Omega 3. I take Melatonin sometimes for sleep but it’s also an antioxidant. I’m loaded up on antioxidants for COVID-19(side benefit of that is that my elbow pain that I’ve had for several years has gone away.) Surprised Marik didn’t say he takes Vit D because it’s looking like Vit D status is a big deal with COVID-19. A little surprised he didn’t say he’s taking Zinc because the Quercetin is to help move Zinc inside cells to interfere with viral replication (something green tea extract and hydroxychloroquine also do.)
Guess I’ll add fish oil to the list.
(Added link to Dr. Marik interview)
Thanks for this link @ChimayoJoe. Think I’ll dive into the supplement cabinet right now, especially if it lessens pain, such as in your case with your elbow. Didn’t want to overstep, but wanted to put the omega 3’s out there. Here’s to dodging Covid!
Hi all- This thread seems to be detouring from the pros and cons of dining out during the pandemic to offering medical opinions/advice. Let’s please refrain from the medical advice and return to the topic at hand.