Thanks to you, I found the Cuisine Culture video series on YouTube! These are great instruction and most do show the featured chefs with copper.
this is all very fascinating, but I do hope you realize you’re tilting full bore at windmills.
there are multiple groups of people for whom there is little hope. the selling site shills of course don’t count. but the others who have just read Dr. Makeamil’s site offering a cure for everything / similar mentalities… will never believe anything they ‘oppose’
it’s like the Teflon is toxic crowd. they don’t know the difference between PTFE and PFOA (and a few associated compounds) but they do know it is all toxic. you can point out multiple dozens of international governmental sites (!!!they’re all a conspiracy!!!) and multiple dozens of international medical sites - who are part of the same conspiracy - and multiple dozens of international testing labs - also part of the conspiracy - and you will never change their mind. in the USA there’s nothing smaller than a one cent coin to make change with, so one can judge the size of the mind you’re trying to change. USA types horrified at an egg cooked on Teflon yet plunking their kids in bed every night swaddled in PTFE flame retardant PFOA residual pj’s. go figger.
and the every popular aluminum-is-killing-you crowd. they don’t really wanna hear about their deodorants, toothpastes, pickles, chocolate preps, cheeses, etc. you can’t present any evidence these people will even consider; they’re on their way to get the latest Dr. Mercola’s cleanse.
imho, copper does some cooking tasks / techniques better. some, not a blanket all. and having a copper pot/pan will not make you a better cook. last Thanksgiving I got nominated to make the turkey gravy - in a paper thin stainless pot using a dinner fork for a whisk. it worked; yes, I was surprised I pulled it off. but it’s a lot more enjoyable using more suited equipment.
This thread originated because of a popular misconception that copperware is somehow dated, passe, and not used by “modern” top chefs. Even I was shocked to discover 7/10 restaurants on La Liste’s best ranking use it.
Several of the numbskulls propagating this misconception on the other site are chefs, so there’s no monopoly on ignorance. Pap like this gets repeated so long and offen that consumers start believing it. Who can blame them when they’ve never tried cooking in copper, which can easily cost more than the very best clad?
So I wanted to create a kind of running testament to which we all can turn whenever ignorance returns.
Aloha,
Kaleo
Thanks for the details and documentation Kaleo. I don’t know many in their right mind who would claim that copper isn’t used. Even laymen would prefer copper for its sheer beauty,scientists for its technical properties, and chefs for both.
I do wonder to what extent some of the choices, SS clad included, are a result of sponsorship or other endorsement deals. The copper has largely disappeared from Per Se and other Keller restaurants, due to his AC line. Just like athletes or actresses are not allowed to wear other lines of clothing, I wonder if these superstars have to be careful of what is shown in their kitchens.
One thing I did notice from all these links and videos of super high end restaurants is the almost complete lack of bare aluminum or non-stick lined aluminum. There is some carbon steel but mostly is SS and is generally Sitram, Mauviel, some AC, and some other lines that are hard to ID.
I had to go and seek out your other thread – I don’t think you’ll change any minds there. At some point, people will themselves to believe one thing and start using a selective bias.
I love cooking with my copper. It is an ecletic mix of stuff I bought on sale at Williams Sonoma, Tuesday Morning and T.J. Maxx plus some stuff I was gifted when my last bosses mom passed away. I also have my Al-Clad, some cast iron I have had for over 40 years, my black steel crepe pans, and my clay cook pot that I use for beans.
nice idea, but you realize you’re only going to get the argument it’s all staged, just advertising, etc, etc. their mind is made up, please don’t confuse them with facts.
George - not so sure about the beauty thing. years back I got unhappy with my cookware, so I started down the (recommended best) line of stuff. none of it worked much better than the Revereware. every place said “copper is the best” so I tossed down the bucks and bought some Bourgeat. at the time I wanted brass/bronze handles, but Bourgeat was 3 mm and the others 2.5 mm. if you want copper, go for max thickness.
for certain tasks it works better than anything else I tried. I do not boil potatoes in a copper pot.
I use it, on gas. it does not get polished. it goes through the dishwasher. the handles have not rusted.
I’m sufficiently reactionary that I did consider tinned interiors. when I looked at the life span and the cost/harangue of re-tinning plus finding a reputable re-tin outfit, I went with stainless interiors. when I see the the debate of better/worst heat transfer of tin and silver, I just exit stage left. the difference is so small it takes 10 to the minus sixth power instrumentation to even “document” it.
I do boil potatoes in copper, but that is only because I already have it and have only 1 clad piece–a skillet. My only alternatives for boiling at my main house would be either my PC or my enameled steel canner.
Oh, I got plenny of argument that the copper in haute places was just for show. But after many photos showng eminent chefs using it, the lead went out of their pencils. A lot was pruned by the mods.
In my modest 53 years across the world , all the great hotel and restaurants , ALL , used Copper ,
for 4 reason ,
it does not discolor sauces,
it does not give off any flavors ,
it keep temperature well which allow you to make great low temp cooking
it will outlast any Chef which make them very cost effective , ever cooked in 80 years old pot , I have and they were as good as new .
Aluminium is lousy make grey sauces , Stainless steel contain metal which are toxic , yes they are finally mumbling it …
Give me copper , learn how to use it , the best meringue is made in copper bowl .
Top 10 restaurants in the world:
No.1. Osteria Francescana. Modena, Italy.
No.2. El Celler de Can Roca. Girona, Spain.
No.3. Eleven Madison Park. New York, USA.
No.4. Central. Lima, Peru.
No.5. Noma. Copenhagen, Denmark.
No.6. Mirazur. Menton, France.
No.7. Mugaritz. San Sebastian, Spain.
No.8. Narisawa. Tokyo, Japan
No.9. Steirereck, Vienna, Austria
No.10. Asador Etxebarri, Spain
http://www.theworlds50best.com/
No.1 Osteria Francescana. Modena, Italy Yes
No.2. El Celler de Can Roca. Girona, Spain A few small copper pans
No.3. Eleven Madison Park. New York, USA. Yes
No.4. Central. Lima, Peru. Yes
No.5. Noma. Copenhagen, Denmark. Yes
No.6. Mirazur. Menton, France. Yes
No.7. Mugaritz. San Sebastian, Spain. No
No.8. Narisawa. Tokyo, Japan. No
No.9. Steirereck, Vienna, Austria. Yes
No.10. Asador Etxebarri, Spain. No
Other high end restaurants:
One of Gordon Ramsay’s restaurants (not sure which one)
Ramsay’s home kitchen
Charlie Trotter’s
Magnus Nilsson’s destination restaurant, Fäviken in Sweden
Paul Bocuse, France.
Thanks.
Nice!
You obviously missed the dust-up over at eGullet–many people cared. The rest of the posters on this thread care, too.
I thought the topic was who cooks in copper, was I confused?
I don’t think so. I was responding to the cartoon posted by Joonjoon. I’ll assume your kitchen is a fine restaurant!
Well not open to the public, but the food is serious.
I just shined up my pot rack, and couldn’t resist.
Btw, you can tell those places have a full time dishwasher with a lot of Barkeeper’s Friend:
Core restaurant, London (2 Stars)
