Howdy pilgrim, tinsmithing doesn’t have any strange enviro regs different than any other blacksmithing. Most that I know just do it on the side the way the Founders preferred (outside gov. purview).
Only issue with century old tin is the possibility of lead present. I’ve tested many of my old pans, and about half have more lead than I would like. Those get retinned in my garage.
If I used it the way a line cook at a fine restaurant would, spending the investors’ money without a qualm, it might, maybe, last a year (doubtful). At the more leisurely pace of home cooking, or even at a restaurant pace but using wood or silicone rather than metal, it can last and last. There are some re-tinners I have used that do a beautiful, thin wipe, and they are here in the US. However, they can be god awful slow. There was I guy I used who served restaurants in NYC. He took so long I was ready to file on him in small claims court! When they finally got here, they were lovely. I think of him every time I use those two pans because he scratched the order numbers next to the handles. 6760 and 6761. That’s a lot of pans.
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He knows all this. Still, he persists…
Well, this is ridiculous. If all copper cookware was sold with this maintenance recommendation, then 99% of the people who own, use, and love copper would never buy it! Do you buy car tires this way? (Or even a car?) Or appliances? Or… anything else?? Of course, if maintenance costs never come out of your own pocket (i.e., the company/restaurant pays for it), then detachment from reality is expected.
An argument (and its chemistry) for extended use between retinnings.
A neighbor of mine had a big diesel pickup truck that required 12 quarts (3 gallons!) of heavy duty diesel oil, with a factory-recommended change interval of 7500 miles. This neighbor also worked for the city, and the city has its own maintenance garages for its fleet of vehicles. So, my neighbor just had the city maintenance garage change his oil for him – for free (to him). But, since he viewed frequent oil changes as “cheap insurance,” he had them do it every 1000-1200 miles (about once a month!). Did this extend the life of his engine? No. (He never kept a vehicle more than 3 or 4 years.) Did it allow the engine to run stronger, faster, or more efficiently? Again, no. Then why bother? Such a clever guy, not paying for self-imposed exorbitant maintenance costs himself!
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OMG, science! I certainly can get a tin lining to the point of needing re-tinning in ten months, using metal tools aggressively. However, I have several tinned pans in regular use since the early seventies. I use wood or silicone in them. They are my workhorses!
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Well, all can say is some minds are closed to science.
And while we’re on that subject, I wonder how many culinary school graduates are given any education at all on the science behind their tools.
You, from what I think I know, may have been lucky to have actually experienced cooking in copper in training.
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Way back when, there were tinned copper and carbon steel pans and carbon steel knives. Nothing was nonstick. It was a very different world. There was plenty of science about the food but not really about the tools.
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Remember when Teflon lined copper got popular for a short while? I’m glad that passed quickly.
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a web page would be really helpful. I am now tempted to buy a new piece and try out your service.
Right now I just have instagram https://www.instagram.com/round.door.retinning?igsh=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA%3D%3D&utm_source=qr
I’d be honored to be of service!
You should watch the old Great Chefs of France episodes if you have a strong stomach. They hammer tinned copper with metal utensils with abandon. I’m in two episodes, in the background, flunky that I was.
Trust me, they worried more about how much was being spent on paper products in the operation than they were the tin. Back in those days, when a restaurant property changed hands all the equipment went with – smallwares, everything. It was customary. Some of it easily dated to the 19th century/very early 20th century – patched in several places, the whole schmear. It was a slice of time. I was glad to have been there. The very thick stuff was not necessarily well-liked by the way.
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Funny you should say that. My wife and I celebrated our 11th anniversary and she got me the Great Chefs of France DVD set. I had watched them dozens of times on YouTube through the years (admiring the copper in each episode) and just watched them again.
What episodes are you in?? The series is one of my fav, as well as Pierre Franeys series (and the book). I especially love the Bresse recipes. My wife and I raised Bresse here in the US for a while as a result. Delicious.
I, in turn, use and abuse my tin linings and have found them to be much more resilient that most would think. From deep frying, to high broiling, to scratching with metal utensils—it hold up very well.
My first pans I retinned were “thinner” lined than I wanted, but still endure abuse to this day. Haven’t noticed a significant difference between the more thick tin linings.
If you look closely you can see some Teflon lined copper in an episode or too. Glad that trend ended.
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I am in the two Bernard Loiseau episodes, may he rest in peace. Figured somewhat prominently in one. Loved him like a brother. I think one of those episodes may not have aired, but I remember the day they were filmed very well.
That’s amazing. For years I’ve made his mushroom soup from the episode. I find it funny that he emphatically says it has “no fat,” just a huge hunk of butter and milk. (I’m all for fat). He seemed so smooth around reporters and media. He left us too early.
Forgive my side-bar. Have you been to the restaurant since his passing? I heard his wife did a good job of up-keeping things.
Cheers,
Cameron
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I haven’t.
Sorry, but why would you want your tinning thin and short-lived? If you’re thinking a thick tinning can interfere with copper’s heat response, I think you don’t understand how thin even the thickest wiped tin linings are. Some sources claim they can be 0.2-0.4mm, and that would indeed slow the copper down if true, but those figures are inflated by at least a factor of ten. I know because I’ve measured rim thickness with calipers and weight to the gram of pans that had the tin stripped before and after getting a thick retinning (Rocky Mountain in Denver).
It would be simple for anyone who owns a caliper to test this by wearing down a patch near the rim to bare copper in a pan that needs retinning whose original thickness was always consistent, like an old Mauviel 1.5mm fish pan. The bare copper spot will not be legibly thinner with a tool that measures to the 0.1mm than the lined areas, let alone 0.2-0.4mm thinner.
If you’re assuming the wipe marks in a “thick” tinning must interfere with nonstick performance, that’s also baseless. Food sticks when particles catch in microscopic gaps in the crystal structure of a cooking surface (why relatively complex alloys like stainless are thought of as having “pores” that trap food and a simpler element like tin is slicker in cooking). The “macro” texture to wipe marks doesn’t have any effect here.
It’s odd you seem to think thick tinning is an “American thing.” If anything the American retinners who try for thick tin with heavy wipe marks (which isn’t all of them) are copying the gold standard European producers, chiefly Mauviel, whose factory tinning has always shown consistent, bright wiped texture that indicates it’s as thick as they can get it.
Atelier de Cuivre in Villedieu does retinning in the same style. If some tinner in Europe sold you a story that wipe marks are bad for cooking, I’m afraid it’s just an excuse for lazier and cheaper work.
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In my experience tinning copper pans (I’ve done it roughly ten times as a hobbyist) I’m not sure the thickness of the tin is highly variable. I always tried for as thick of a layer as I could get, thinking this might reduce the frequency of needing to renew the lining.
Instead, it seemed the copper would saturate after a thin lining was applied. Any areas where a thicker wiping would initially adhere seemed to bubble, flake, and thin out to the same thinness as the rest of the lining during the first or second time cooking with the pan.
Yes, I want my tinning vapor thin, smooth, and short-lived. I want the bare minimum to make the cookware safe. I couldn’t care less how much it costs to maintain.
Layer thickness is highly variable owing to technique, but it’s probably close to impossible for a hobbyist tinner to get it uniformly thick. It’s why there’s said to be an art to good tinning. If you ever get a chance to pick up a new old stock Mauviel pan, the difference in thickness vs amateur tinning couldn’t be clearer in hand. Thin tin is “flat” and thick tin is bright and shows clear wipe marks all over, not just faintly or localized.
Tin that was wiped on heavily by an expert like Mauviel’s doesn’t degrade early with use like you describe, it actually seems to stay bright longer than thin tin and can last much longer (see photos in this forum of original Villedieu tinning in use for a half century). It’s not a big deal to only expect a few years before wearing it through if you are tinning your own pans, but for those who send them to the retinner, it’s good to know how to spot a high quality tinning for choosing a provider.
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