Bandsaw would be my guess, but my insight into meat cutting is decades ago working in my grandpa’s general store. And he wouldn’t let me use the bandsaw; just knife work for me.
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Hi Chem,
Why do you have so many cleavers?
Which cleaver that you have do you use the most? and what are the most typical things you do with it?
Even though I love it, and it has changed my thinking, one 8X4 slicer and another just wider than my nakiri is all I can imagine.
Ray
Hi Pertti,
I always love your enthusiasm and attention to detail (the handle work), but remain mystified about where you’re going with this.
After years of thinking about it, I saw the light, bought my Shibazi, and was amazed at all the things I could do with it–at the highest level. That, in turn, led me to update my 35 year old Kai Seki Magoroku nakiri with a wider, sharper knife–and I was done. My needs for butchering are so minimal that I retired my only butcher knife in favor of a deba that slices more cheese and green squash than beef.
I worry about small bones in chicken, but I have ways to handle that without a chopper, and besides, none of my cutting boards are strong enough to handle a “whomp” from a Western style cleaver–which I wouldn’t use.
And you’ve posted six right here that you have–and lots more on the way–even considering a mallet to use to break a bone . . .
Why?
Ray
That makes sense. Thanks.
The rubber mallet would be for other things for me if I’ll get one. It just came to my mind when Chem posted his.
I wanted some cleavers… big slicers in both stainless and carbon. One for chopping and a smaller cleaver that I can enjoy once in a while. I also hope my wife would grab it at some point, but so far she is not touching the Sugimoto, I think she needs a little push there. The Zwilling was essentially a brain fart of mine as a rank novice knife enthusiast. I quickly discovered I don’t really like it that much, the CCK bbq chopper is the replacement for it and a lot better suited for my needs. I think the last time I used the Zwilling was when I was chopping my kids old toys at his request to get to the insides of them.
I don’t have more knife additions planned for the moment (and none on the way), but I guess I have enough knives to call it a hobby of sorts.
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Man. Tell her that it is her loss. 
Such a high quality knife.
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Hi Pertti,
From your posts, it seems that your collection/hobby has four domains:
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Family pre hobby home cooking (and camping/exploring) knives–common in Finland.
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Higher end enthusiast knives that were at least one level higher in quality, craftsmanship, feel, and sharpness–but not necessarily game changers for meals you prepare.
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Vegetable cleavers for chopping and slicing alternatives to 1. and 2. (This is where I entered–with damiano as the example)
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A throwback French “batterie” of knives that you have purchased and restored.
It’s category 2 where we’ve separated the most, because you focus more narrowly than me. I’ve focused on cultural fusion as an idea, with mainstream adaptations across cultures. You’ve focused much more narrowly on Japanese artisan knives–and I’m super super cost/value and patient in my acquisitions.
I first got interested in my birthday Fuji Chef knife about five years after it had won awards–even cut carrots with one–and now, 7 years later, found a way to buy it for about half price ($240) on EBAY through negotiations. Still at nosebleed level for me–but it was 7 years, and I still wanted it.
Both of us have gotten into issues of maintenance in different ways. I do soft steel with honing and pull through–and keep the knives close enough to grit 1000 to be usable. Occasionally, I may try to get them really sharp with loaded stropping, but it’s a lot of work–and it doesn’t last long.
My hard steel knives can be maintained with occasional ceramic honing and near constant green strops–refined to grit 3000 or so. I’ve now received two diamond plates that I’ve already used successfully for very slight tip repair on my Shan Zu.
For further refinement, I still am considering Shopton glass and diamond spray on a strop–or even both.
I’ve just rearranged my gabbables so that all the softer steel knives are together with a honing steel included . . . .
Ray
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Hi Alarash,
I think that we need to look at the “cleaver” from Western, Asian, and cultural fusion perspectives that are beginning to flourish in home kitchens.
To Westerners, the cleaver is a meat cleaver primarily used for severing bones. Even those of us who have one in the home kitchen don’t use it any more. In the United States, grocery stores have solutions available for every need met by the butcher knife, and I’ve eliminated a meat cleaver from kitchens my whole life.
To Asians, the cleaver is, first and foremost, a slicer, shrunk in Japan to a 2"X7" super light “nakiri,” expanded up to a 4" X 8" (and beyond) surprisingly light weight vegetable cleaver for China and most of Asia.
For cultural fusion, the greater flexibility of the Chinese concept has teetered between a multiple cleaver to a single cleaver home–even among my Chinese friends. I’ve teetered myself, adopting the big 4X8–and expanding and refining my 2X7 beyond the 2" nakiri with harder steel.
It’s hard for me to imagine a cultural fusion home without a slicing cleaver–or a home with more than 3 that includes a chopper. . . .
Ray
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Hobby ?!?
To Pertti, his knives have become a hobby ?
I own 50+ knives, no cleavers though, and knives are a little hobby of mine, not a huge hobby, just a fun little hobby.
Same with cookware, I own 50+ pans & pots, it’s just a little hobby of mine. I could cook perfectly with just 5-6 pans & pots in my arsenal.
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Hi Claus,
Me too.
I started this as an experiment in technology–to cook with induction and convection–to recreate meals my grandmother made in a completely new way. That led both to a new kitchen and a new way. The induction units and ovens came first; then cookware and utensils.
batteries of SS, Eci, and cutlery.
First test: Swedish pancakes.
It’s a continuing hobby that’s lots of fun.
Ray
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This is true for me, also. Yet, cookware fills the storage areas of our house. I think I expected to work my way up to a mini-mansion sized house with an enormous kitchen that could accommodate all my cookware and desires to hold large dinner parties. That’s not happening 
Probably time to get realistic and pass on the majority of the pots and pans.
Hi alarash,
When I first started this experiment, I set limits, then followed the French idea of well defined “batteries” of tools to support my efforts–sort of empty “slots” to fill. I made it adaptive–and i made it competitive–and I made it real. Every piece in each batterie had to be grabbable: nothing stored away. If a pot, pan, or knife deserved a new slot–I found one. If it got beaten out, it was given away, retired, sent to my morgue, or trashed.
To be fair, and to have fun, my batteries have almost become a test bed for cultural fusion. I just got a Japanese American fusion Chef Knife for my birthday as a new addition to my batterie, and rearranged my kitchen once again to keep my knives all grabbable.
Ray
I also have quite a few pans, but storing them is not a huge issue for me yet luckily, though our kitchen is not so large . ECI I keep on top of our fireplace and my carbon wok + Darto n.35 paella I’m keeping in under a helper table (there’s a place for them, not on the floor) in the kitchen/livingroom transition area. Maybe not the optimal place, but the pans have some soul so its fine for me, maybe not as much for the wife :D. I also keep a little stack of Darto carbon pans next to the stove at the moment, that area would be better to keep clear to be honest, but I just like to keep frequently used pans close. They would fit in a drawer also, but we are running out of space in the drawers also.
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Pretty close yes Ray,
Originally we had Finnish Fiskars chefs, parings and some serrated tomato knives just like anybody here in Finland. Then we were gifted a few Japanese knives. A MAC bread knife first and later a santoku that was imported from a trip in Japan. They were nice, but I wasnt into knives at that point really. Time went by and I often used the cheaper knives and (sometimes literally) threw them in the sink, or DW.
My first better knife purchases were Zwilling professional S and 4 star knives. They were a better craft and sturdier for sure compared to our lower end Fiskars. I didn’t truly feel them to be an upgrade in terms of ease of cutting though. I remember feeling that the Zwillings, in some instances they cut worse, they were thicker than the Fiskars knives, that were quite thin overall.
Next after discussions at CH etc I formed some sort of idea what I wanted from Japan and I then I ordered 3 Japanese knives. Indeed I wanted my Japanese knives to be made in Japan also and I have kept that idea going forward. They were definitely cutting more effortlessly than my previous knives and in that sense they changed the game enough for me to explore more. If I didn’t see an improvement in how “lasery” they cut, I would have most likely stopped there with J-knives.
Somewhere then came the Chinese cleavers followed by the lovely Sabatiers, of which I have quite a few by now ;). I never expected the cleavers to change everything for me, I just wanted to experience them and they were nice to use for me. I think I have enough of them now… the Sabs have a special place in my heart.
I am not attached to some of my knives and could easily sell them - but so far haven’t. I gave my Zwilling 4 star block to my mum though and I understand she is using them a lot. A nice sturdy set of knives.
Have you yet tried a normal sharpening session with the diamond? I bet you’d like the Shapton better yet then if it goes well with the diamond.
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Luckily you also tried high quality Japanese knives and high qualify Chinese knives. If you had tried poor Japanese knives and Chinese knives, then like you said, you would have stopped there.
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The 3 first Japanese knives, that I ordered at once were a 210mm Sukenari SG2 gyuto, a 180mm Kashima Sanjo (Yoshikane) hakata and a 300mm Matsubara sujihiki.
The Sukenari is what my wife has been using now and I think its nice also, though not raising much feelings, just cuts everything pretty well. When she is using the Sukenari, I can often see the Wusthof classic ikon creme 16cm chef in the dishwasher already though 
.
The Yoshi made knife cuts so effortlessly, that none of the knives I bought afterwards have quite matched that, perhaps to my annoyance even. It does feel a bit delicate though as it was suggested there at cleancut… and I don’t use it all the time. Later I remember reading on forums online they would be on the thinnest ground side of Yoshikanes.
I looked if they are still sold and actually noticed cleancut is nowadays apparently selling them as Yoshikane instead of Kashima when I bought it (shop brand). Lmao kind of tempting the gyuto now.
https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knifetype/gyuto/yoshikane_gyuto_240mm-detail
The suji I knew I wanted right when I saw it and I’m glad I got exactly the one in the photos back then at cleancut. It can reflect light quite nicely. I have it mostly reserved for bigger raw boneless cuts where the length is an advantage. For crusty roasts etc I use my Sabatiers.
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Hi Pertti,
Great write-up. My maintenance with loaded strops works so well with the hard steel knives, that I’m only thinking of stones for refinement for them.
For the softer steel knives, I need honing and touch-up on the job–otherwise, the stropping protocols get burdensome with them–and they don’t hold a refined sharpness very well anyway–even the Wusthof. I’ve now grouped most of them sol that I can keep them sharp enough to benefit from the loaded strop without straining my wrist.
Yesterday, as an experiment, I tried my much loved Wusthof Precision 3 1/2", which sits next to my computer, with the 1000 grit diamond stone rather than a ceramic hone–then my loaded strop: it worked! Looks like a real timesaver.
Keep in mind that the two diamond stones, holder w/strop base, angle guide, and glove cost just over $20! They’ve already earned their keep with repair on my Shan Zu tip.
The Shaptons cost a ton for a single stone, and the leveling stone they require is outrageously expensive–and they’re still really messy waterstones.
Everything I’ve ever spent on honing rods, pull-throughs, and strops so far, all together have cost about $100 over 7 years–and all my knives are grabbably sharp in my kitchen right now. The hard steel sg-2’s are very sharp and refined.
Where I see a need is in further refining and polishing beyond raw leather polishing. If I could get by with one glass shapton–maybe leveling with my diamond stones–it might be worth it for refinement. CGTG has a diamond spray kit that they demo that works with a strop. I know where they get the spray–and I know how to get a cheap piece of leather . . . .
Ray
So, you were exploring Finn-German cultural fusion?
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Ha ha ha.
Oh. Your wife does like good knife (Sukenari SG2 gyuto) . I thought she just doesn’t like any of your good knives. I see. She only does not like your Sugimoto.
Yeah, Kashima Sanjo looks like a very nice knife. It looks thin in the photo already (but cannot be sure).
