my son lost 150 lbs 5-6 years ago or so, and he keeps track of everything he eats - as well as continuing with certain absolute “red light” prohibitions - for example he NEVER has seconds, never eats dessert even on his birthday or holidays and does not partake of a list of other trigger foods - and he remains an active member of in Overeaters anonymous. He is happy and at peace and doesnt find it a nuisance. I think some people, especially those prone to addictions, just need boundaries they do not cross to avoid getting into trouble again,
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That’s fantastic. Especially the keeping it off for 5-6 years.
It’s easy to lose weight, the real task is keeping it off.
Kudos to your son.
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For some, sugar is a toxic, addicting drug, like alcohol. He’s very smart to now realize he shouldn’t have even a tiny bit.
So many foods like crackers etc have sugar and salt, encouraging some to overeat them.
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For me, tracking helps when I am trying something new, until I get a sense of things.
When I first started the Omada diabetes prevention program I tracked for quite awhile, then stopped for years, and still maintained most of my “habits”. I tracked more recently, but with a new list of “behaviors”.
When I think about this latest round of tracking, I would agree that eating for enjoyment didn’t come with every meal, but I think trying new things did (come with enjoyment).
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I have a friend who did that, and has kept most of it off for decades. 
No magic formula, no tracking, just thoughtful eating habits.
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Self imposed boundries…absolutely!
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Huh. Here I’ve been thinking a keto diet is determined by whether the dieter is in ketoacidosis.
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I just saw this post again and it hit home. For me in the past, I got my best results when I did more weight training and a moderate amount of cardio. Your mention of the metabolic sustenance of fat vs muscle is spot on. But there is another aspect I have been taught and that seems to ring true to me. If you lift hard enough to be sore the next day, your muscles have been slightly torn down and are “re-growing” the muscle fibers in a stronger, more fit new version of themselves. And that rebuilding process is metabolically expensive, it takes fuel and that fuel is usually protein and carbs (?) but I believe it will also draw to a lesser extent on stored fat. So the post weight workout burn is you burning calories for 18 to 36 hours after you finish you perceived workout.
Or so I was told by multiple weight trainers at Golds, so take my unsolicited and amateurish ideas with a grain of salt.
But weights (usually higher reps of 6 to 12 reps for more endurance and some strength gains rather than 2 to 6 reps concentrating on strength and increased muscle mass) do seem to work on weight reduction for a wide variety of body types while cardio seems to increase fitness levels while doing less for weight reduction.
And variety helps a great deal too. I have a Peloton and I work out on a gym elliptical and I walk and I bike and I lift (a bit) and doing multiple types of exercise seems to help. And it is less boring.
JMHO.
I ate myself into a bad place health-wise during Covid after my gym closed and I stopped working out for 18 months. I am just now getting myself back into shape so I am a lot less sure of my ideas on fitness, though.
But the “eat what you enjoy” is something I truly agree with. Even if you have to do a little more work later.
"Try doing some strength work and focus less on cardio.
While important, cardio has less effect on your ability to manage weight than building muscle.
Why? Because a pound of muscle is more metabolically expensive than an equal pound of fat. That is, even at rest, a pound of muscle takes more calories to sustain itself than a pound of fat.
So if you can reduce your total body fat percentage even by 1/10th (from say 50% to 45%), you’ve now increased your BMR and RMR, which makes weight management (not dieting, cuz I hate that word, as it’s so loaded) much easier to accomplish than walking or huffing and puffing running on a treadmill.
But no matter what, eat what you enjoy and enjoy what you eat. "
Life’s too short and precious to do it any other way."
ipsedixit
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Self control and self denial are two entirely different things. That’s why “diets” seldom work. Cutting out enjoyable foods just results in cravings. Better enjoy small amounts of favorite food that satisfies the mind as well as body.
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I think it’s important to note that it’s hard to apply the same rules to all “regimens”, and different goals.
I find the subject of “satiety” fascinating! That being said, I’m thinking some of us are not here talking about weight loss. Weight loss aside, I think walking is of benefit for a few health outcomes.
Since someone mentioned “addictions”, if someone understands even a little bit is tempting fate for them, I believe them! I know this to be true when it comes to many substances of abuse.
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So often, the common thinking is that a good workout for weight loss is dependent on the calories burned" metric one finds on those elliptical machines, treadmills, Peloton bikes (or wattage), rowing machines etc.
That’s all good and well, but aside from the fact that those calorie counters (or even watt metrics) are often miscalibrated or just a “guesstimate,” they simply measure your energy expenditure for that specific time period. Your calorie expenditure after you’ve finished your cardio sessions drops off dramatically (though there is still an after effect burn from cardio).
Contrast that with weight lifting. Yes, no doubt, while you are lifting weights the energy expenditure is generally not as high as a strict cardio session (though there are exceptions like Tabata style workout, or Metcon workouts with kettlebells and slamballs, or Crossfit style circuits, etc.).
But, like you said, after you’ve done your weight lifting session, not only is your body working overtime to rebuild those damaged muscles, but the new muscle cells that are created are going to be bigger, requiring more energy to stay “alive” and hence more metabolically expensive.
Thus, even after a 1-hour weight training session, if you just sat there doing nothing but trolling on Hungry Onion, you’d be burning more calories than if you had done a 1-hour cardio session.
And lets not forget, as we all get older (not saying any of us are old, but just that time is undefeated and we all age; its tautologically undeniable) more muscle mass is important if for nothing else than helping us stay upright, mobile and dexterous. Y’know, basic life activities like getting out of bed, or not missing and falling on your ass when trying to aim for the toilet seat.
There is a strong thought in certain segments of the medical community that, with a few exceptions for those who are diagnosed clinically obese, no one over the age of 60 should ever be on a diet to lose weight, they should be on a diet to gain muscle. After all, with inactivity, after the age of 30, people tend to lose as much as 5% of lean body mass per decade.
This isn’t to say that cardio is worthless, it most definitely is not. It works one of the most important muscles we have (the heart), but for weight management (and/or weight loss) it is, at best, a blunt instrument.
And weight lifting doesn’t necessarily mean throwing around 50lb dumbbells or deadlifting 500lb. Even 20 air squats or lunges, 10 pushups and 5 pullups a day is beneficial.
TL;DR Cardio good for heart health, weight lifting good for the rest of our muscles and easier for weight management.
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I think for a strict keto diet or like atkins a goal is to go into ketosis. I have friends who have done straight keto but its harder to sustain over the long term and probably less healthy than a modified version that includes some slow carbs, veg and limited fruit.
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Yes. The way many, including Atkins, work is there’s a strict initial phase, designed to put the patient into ketosis quickly. If it’s followed, the acidosis state is fairly deep. After that initial phase, however, more carbohydrates are allowed, but not enough to take the patient fully out of ketosis. The ideal is to test the patient’s ketone levels with urine test strips, and adjust to stay barely in ketosis.
I think the risks of a ketogenic diet are overwhelmingly related to program noncompliance.
I would say the risks to Keto are overwhelmingly related to program compliance.
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Not ketoacidosis, ketosis. Big difference. https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/ketosis-ketoacidosis-sound-similar-but-not-the-same-thing
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This is a good summer read.
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Is it though? 
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Do you disagree with the theory espoused by the book?
I don’t necessarily agree or disagree with what the author is saying. Because the more you know the more you realize the less you know.
I just like to know more about what people are saying.
All data is useful, even bad data.
Without knowing what is fiction how can you separate fact from fiction?
I do not disagree! I was just wondering if it was my idea of summer reading. I think of things that I can tear through without much thought. Something distracting and frivolous. I am definitely putting it on my list though.
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I cashed in my promise to lose weight and improve fitness after I retired. I got back to the gym every other day, a lot of bike riding and tennis, various diets until I hit upon intermittent fasting which has allowed me to maintain a healthy weight for 10 years. I don’t have breakfast or lunch, eat what I want for dinner.
However, it’s much harder now that we’re in nyc, I’d eat lunch in the boroughs everyday if I could, harder to play tennis and ride a bike. I’ve lost about 8 pounds since we got to our place in Florida, much fewer food-based temptations and tennis every day.
We’ve made a conscious decision to reduce red meat, increase fish and vegetables.
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