Could it be to protect the authors from being accused of adding too much salt…? Its such a meaningless phrase and control is totally in the hands of the cook.
I avoids any liability for people using too much salt - not that it would be a legal liability - but could be reputational liability for a chef who campaigns for healthy food.
I agree.
I tend to use both the internet and online newspapers for recipe ideas and sudden inspiration from a newspaper article e.g. Nigel Slaters Miso carrots from the Guardian. Or when researching a particular idea e.g. I am going to a Burmese themed dinner party and need a tea leaf salad recipe.
But I prefer good books for more in depth study and to get an understanding of a chefs style or countries cuisine. A well structured book leads you along in a way the internet can never do.
In my experience it really depends on the chef. Some are very good and their books form the backbone of my book collection for example: Gordon Ramsay; Neil Perry; David Thompson; Fuchsia Dunlop; Rose Gray/Ruth Rogers; and, Sam & Sam Clark. Obviously others are vanity projects and I have one or two of those.
The books that really irritate me are the ones seemingly produced for Christmas. They seem to be authoritative tomes on their subject but end up being a rag bag of recipes with an arty layout and format. Their is one big publisher that seems to specialise in them - especially at Christmas - I have a few that arrived courtesy of Santa Claus.
In the context of celebrity ghostwritten cookbooks, which is ostensibly where this thread stated out, those statements just don’t apply.
Or are you two arguing that “Five Ingredients” represents a “coherent” and “in depth” understanding of Jamie Olivers lasting contributions to international cuisine and culinary technique that “leads you along the way” to his unique vision?
Sorry, but books like “Five Ingredients” have no more coherent vision than a publisher looking to make money.
I can only imagine that salt is such an ubiquitous and yet personal ingredient that Jamie Oliver wants us to decide how much to add. I agree with him on that. However, I think if it is dish for a first time user, it would be helpful to put down a number. We can always adjust in the future.
To me this is the same asking baking. It is nice to have a suggested temperature and time. I can always adjust next time. To write down “Bake to perfection (without providing temperature or time)” would be rather silly.
"Name one.
I have never, ever, seen Jamie Oliver do one thing that I thought was clever.
On the other hand, I learn something new every time I watch Jacques Pepin."
John may well reply, but Jamie’s make-in-advance Christmas gravy works really, really well for me. I don’t know if it’s particularly original or ground braking, but I now often make it.
Jacques is a master technician:
Whereas Jamie is more having knowledgeable fun in the kitchen. Plenty of room for both approaches.
No - because many of the other recipes also refer to seasoning but use other wording. I didnt count them but I have a sense that, in the recipes which have something of an asian spin to them, the “season to taste” phrase isnt used. I suspect it’s all down to whoever actually wrote those recipes and the repetition wasnt picked by the editor (and should have been)
Agreed. We tend to only pick them up inthe remainder shops. As for actual Christmas recipes, we rely on Delia Smith’ Christmas book and have since it was published in 1990 (and a Jocelyn Dimbleby recipe for mince pies which I do every year)
Yep. He is classically trained and it shows. He’s probably forgotten more stuff than most of the rest of these schmucks ever knew.
I will never forget the time he made a couple of knife cuts to turn black olives into rabbits for a garnish.
Older recipes just used to say “Season to taste”.
Apparently this formulation is unpopular with his ghost writer.
Sorry to be cynical about this, but Oliver’s brand was tanking in the UK five years ago.
There is a whole gang of people whose livelihoods, and even careers, depend on that brand.
It was a pretty successful campaign because it got a lot of publicity, and even people who knew they were being manipulated bought into it.
I don’t think it would work in the US because when they give kids healthy choices here they all sneak off campus to buy something else.
Mod note:
Hi, this discussion is getting a little unfriendly. Please feel free to disagree with each other, but please refrain from sarcasm and personal attacks. If you are not fond of interacting with another user, please just don’t engage. And please focus the discussion on Mr. Oliver himself and not on each other.
Thank you.
No.
Such vehement animosity over such trivial concerns can only mean one thing…
How long have you two been divorced?
I think the issue with salt is there are so many different types of salt! Regular iodized, kosher, sea salt, etc. Even the types can be different from one form to the next.
I normally use Morton’s kosher salt, but when I was at the store a few weeks ago, they were out of Morton’s, so I picked up Diamond kosher salt. It has a completely different texture, and I have to add more of it when cooking than I ever added of the Morton’s salt. I’m so used to grabbing the salt from my salt jar and just knowing how much to add, and with this salt, I’m constantly undersalting because the texture and flavor are so different, even though they are both kosher salt.
No question that those two brands have totally different characteristics. I will always go with Diamond.
My problem with the season to taste is when we are talking about raw pork and/or chicken. I can’t taste it raw. I just want to some guidance… if the forward says that recipes were tested with table, sea, Morton, Diamond… then I can adjust. Season to taste does make sense in a salad dressing. It doesn’t make sense in a dish with raw proteins.
It depends. Some are vanity projects with the chef literally putting the name on the cover of a ghost written book. But there are quite a lot that are the work of the said chef - they may well work with a writer and production team but they have a lot of input. I gave some examples in my previous post.
Nope. Never mentioned it.
Yup. Exact opposite here. I use Diamond. When I have to use Morton, everything is oversalted.
I’m curious if anyone has ever read a good ghostwritten cookbook. I picked up a chef-written Greek cookbook at the library (can’t recall the author at the moment) and I wished it was ghostwritten or at least he had major assistance. Too many ideas thrown all over the place.
I think it may be difficult to be certain when a ghostwriter has been used, as opposed to the big names who may, or may not, have used a ghost but have certainly been supported by, say, recipe development people or publishers’ editors. Someone may well be able to cook but can they write?
As you mentioned Greek, I pulled the only Greek cookbook I have off the shelves (actually “modern Greek Cypriot”). It’s the author’s first book. I know who she is but I’m not really familiar with her career. Even here, there’s a long list of credits - various editors, several more folk who come in for fullsome praise without really being specific about their role. Certainly there’s no credit for anyone obviously a ghost - but there wouldnt be, would there?
IMO, the key to turning out a really good book, as opposed to one that is decent enough, is the strength of the editing. In my own field of military history, I’ve greatly benefitted from the input of my editor. On the other hand, I’ve seen awful books, usually self-published. A couple of years back, I was sent a first chapter of a book someone was trying to write. It was terrible - poor grammar and spelling and an account that didnt really hang together. The guy had asked for my honest comments and I replied that it would need some heavy revision and editing. And that was, seemingly, the end of that. Whether he kept on writing, I don’t know, but the book has never got to publication.
At the risk of being called names and threatened with grievous battery (not to mention divorce), what is written above is just incorrect with regard to the average celebrity cookbook these days.
Cookbooks are not great literature. They do not get written by Hemingway or Steinbeck. They may be put together by people with a high school education, but even that isn’t a given. Chefs who can write a coherent English sentence, like Anthony Bourdain, are exceedingly rare. English composition is not a required course at Hyde Park.
For most celebrity chefs the books are written by staff, not the chef. The celebrity chef may be somewhat involved in the selection of recipes or the theme, and also may read and approve the proofs, but that’s about it.
I know this because I used to work the other side of the curtain, and because my cousin used to ghost write cookbooks for a living. So this is not something I am asserting because I believe it to be so, or because I publish other stuff. It’s what is actually going on.
An easy way to determine who wrote the book is to check the copyright notice. If it says Boy Meats Grill or Martha Stewart Living or Al a Carte Productions LLC it was probably at least in part ghost written, and “work for hire” agreements were involved.
The full story on who is writing what will never come out, because most of the ghost writers sign iron clad confidentiality agreement with serious financial penalties for disclosure. Plus, if word gets around, they will never work again.
The books are sold and marketed to a largely unsuspecting audience, who may or may not cook, based upon the strength of the celebrity’s brand. For example, there are a lot of famous people who are not chefs who have cookbooks.
Some “authors” like Rachel Ray, Martha Stewart, Paula Deen and… Jamie Oliver… are notorious for their use of staff writers and assistants. Even Jacques and Julia used them. This trend has accelerated greatly over the last 20 years or so.
This is not to say that some books are not written by the chefs. I’ve checked my library for copyright notice and both Diane Kochilas and Walter Staib, for example, write their own works.
But they are the exception to the rule these days.
As much as it pains me to quote this source, and if certain persons won’t believe me, perhaps they will believe the New York Times:
Finally, it continues to be a mystery to me why any one would buy these things, but then I guess there is an audience for everything.
