Actually, I don’t claim to be an expert in XiaoLongBao, and I don’t know any favorite XLB place in SF. However, there are a few places which I like over here in the East Coast. I have had Ding Tai Fung XLB a long time ago in Taiwan and remember liking them quiet a bit.
I was not attacking Ding Tai Fung. I was just questioning the idea that thinning skin makes XLB better. I often hear that restaurant A’s XLB is better than restaurant B because restaurant A’s skin is thinner. I don’t think it is true, and I also think such a “one-side” criteria undermine or over-simplify XLB – as if there is nothing to this famous dish beside making the skin thinner and thinner.
Let’s do a mental exercise, and imagine the thinnest possible skin… paper thin, maybe it is so thin there is nothing… it is just pork with gelatin soup suspend in the air (magically) – just like you see liquid sphere suspending in gravity-less space.
Just imagine that all you eat is the “pork surrounding with a sphere of gelatin soup”. Is that the ultimate XLB? I am sure it is visually absolutely amazing and beautiful. However, would this be the ultimate taste of a XLB? Would this skinless XLB be “the best it can ever be”? (assuming the idea that the thinner the skin, the better the XLB)
I would argue that it would just be pork in its own juice, and that its taste won’t be better.
Shanghai food critic Shen Hongfei (沈宏非): “What most shops sell these days are not xiaolongbao, but Nanjing tangbao [Nanjing soup dumplings] marketed as xiaolongbao. These are the soup-filled dumplings with very thin skin, like the kind you find at Jia Jia Tang Bao.”
Of course, you are not. You are not interested in making an intelligent argument, but you have no problem making a fairly insulting and empty response: Ridiculous.
You may or may not be actually eating the standard XiaoLongBao. I think that is a trend. Either you can say that XLB is changing or that it has been taken over.
The fillings (for one) are quite different. One has added liquid. One has added pork skin (provide gelatin). The ways the dough (skin) is made are also different. In fact, the dough wasn’t even like this 60+ years ago. Back then, 1/3rd fermented dough and 2/3rd non-fermented dough (or some ratio like this). Now, the dough is entirely non-fermented.
You and your namesake hfshen nailed it. What Din Tai Fung, Jia Jia Tang Bao, and a lot of new imitators serve are Nanjing Tang Bao, not Xiao Long Bao. I had my xiao long epiphany in 1992 (April 7, 1992, to be exact) and was a XLB zealot for the next 20 years, but was confused about what different factions considered good xiao long bao until I encountered Shen’s explanation.
True XLB have thicker skins, less soup, more meat and tend to hold their shape better when lifting. They also have a slightly sharper flavor component which I haven’t been able to isolate, but may hve something to do with sesame oil.
Din Tai Fung has spurred the confusion by calling their Nanjing Tang Bao XLB; their most worthy competitor, Jia Jia Tang Bao, is more honest in its naming of the dumplings. Most forthcoming with its nomenclature is the small but well-established chain named Nanjing Tang Bao.
The benchmark for true Xiao Long Bao can be found at the now tourist-swamped Nanxiang Xiaolong Mantou Dian. [Note: Shanghainese people never call them xiao long bao; it’s always xiao long mantou.]
True XLB at Nanxiang Xiaolong Mantou Dian in 1995 (my BIL in background):
I did tried that, it was the molecular XLB from Bo Innovation in Hong Kong…actually no meat in the sphere too… just the taste. It’s good, but I don’t feel satisfied.
The questions about thinner skin is it better. On a certain level, thinner skin is better technique, texture = better taste in mouth. I think after all it depends if the skin is done correctly. The point is usually the skin is broken and juice is gone before landing on the spoon.
Well, I won’t say the thicker the skin the better they are, but I don’t belong to “the thinner the skin the better” camp neither. There is an optimal thickness.
Now, on the XiaoLongBao vs Tang Bao. First, they are very similar and share the same origin. However, there are some differences. I thought this 1:50 min video will be helpful. For one you can see the fillings are actually different.
At 0:50 time, water was added to create the soup for KaiFeng Tang Bao
At 1:15 time, pork skin (or other form of gelatin) was added and will melt to liquid after steaming for XiaLongBao.
This is why the liquid content won’t be the same for these two styles.
The discussion was about Nanjiing tang bao versus traditional Shanghai xiao long bao (which originated in Nanxiang). Kaifeng tang bao is a different, larger bao from 1000 kilometers away.
The discussion is about xiao long bao in general vs tang bao in general. Conversations expand and contract. This very thread was splintered out of a different thread. Regarding KaiFeng tang bao being much larger. That was true a long time ago. They are not that large anymore.
Did you happen to watch the video I put the link to? The KaiFeng tang bao do not look that large. The video also explains that XiaoLongBao was based on the tradition passed from KaiFeng. The video didn’t say, but there is a historical reason for this.
I don’t know if you can read Chinese, but here is another statement which explain the importance of KaiFeng origin:
Yes, KaiFeng is far away, but that does not take away its influence. XiaoLongBao-like Tang Bao-like all started in North Song Dynasty in China, and Northern Song capital was KaiFeng. When Song capital was conquered, many of its culture moved southward say, today Shanghai and other places. I won’t say XLB has nothing to do with KaiFeng tang bao.
The gentleman in the video referred to the smaller ‘tang bao’ as kaifeng tang bao. Perhaps the terms are interchangeable nowadays. Some more info about Kaifeng Tang Bao:
Well, I won’t say the thicker the skin the better they are, but I don’t belong to “the thinner the skin the better” camp neither. There is an optimal thickness.