That’s why I included in the line of service - and yes, management can’t take part of the tips
Perhaps only a big shock to the system with many restaurants closing might bring any change to this system. So yes, I don’t “want” restaurants to close but if it is the only way to change the system perhaps a rapid closure of 50% of restaurants might change somethings
Like that’s going to happen here.
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I think the prices for food, restaurants and many other things will continue to go up and I don’t think the overall economy can be indefinitely kept afloat by the top 1% earners. I am not sure how long it will take but there will be a breaking point where significant parts of the economy might be in serious trouble
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So, sort of like how many Walmart employees use public assistance because they’re not making a living wage. Basically a subsidy for businesses to leverage. I don’t think this is a good model. Frankly it’s a really shitty model regardless if big corp, fast food or mom and pop are using it. I can cut some slack on mom and pop but no way in hell going to cut any huge corporation or restaurant group any slack. FFS….pay people and stop sponging off the system like sleazeballs. Public assistance was NOT designed to subsidize businesses. You can argue counter and I will say it again…that’s not how the system was designed. Frankly the practice should be outlawed.
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And those who never declare their tips in their tax filings have almost zero chance to ever qualify for a bank loan of any kind.
It’s a system alright. I don’t think it’ll change in my lifetime, like many other things specific to this country that are much tougher to accept than the tipping culture.
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But again….what do they have to compare the tip wage system with? You’re saying waitstaff like the tip system but there’s no alternative. …and you’re saying the system works….and what Steve R said. I responded to Steve R. I do NOT believe in subsidizing businesses, mom and pop, Walmart or fast food groups.
I will also go out on a limb to say if waitstaff experience the no tip, all inclusive I doubt they’d go back or think tipping is great. I’ll mention Chez Panisse again because downstairs wait staff made six figures 20 years ago.
I worked for tips before and while at university and our staffs were usually split evenly between middle class college kids and inner city African Americans. We liked working for tips because you made more when you worked hard and smart. And we generally made 4 to 6 times what the minimum wage was, untaxed, depending on the job. The part that makes tip culture so hard to end is that the best employees like the tip system the most because they make the most money. If you dumb down the system to pay everyone equally, the top producers will leave the industry. I travel a lot and most of the professional waiters in Europe and SE Asia are simply not that good. I don’t dine at Michelin restaurants though.
A good waiter can feel someone looking at him across a room and acknowledges that look even if they cannot respond immediately. I very seldom see that in my travels outside the US.
And yes, there was a temptation to party and we lost some friends to that. The drug attrition rate was highest among waiters/cooks, lower among doormen/bellmen. But most of us worked hard and saved money. I saved money and ended up with a sailboat, of all things. It financed my first RTW trip so it worked out ok.
I think there should be a better system but it will be a bear shifting the US tip culture around.
Just my 2 cents.
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That made me laugh because i was that guy. I was making very good money in Washington DC as a bellman at a nice hotel. I wanted to buy a condo so i talked to a Realtor who put me in touch with a loan officer.
The loan officer said my stated income was only enough for a tiny mortgage, even though he knew i had a tipped income that would allow me to afford the payment on a much, much larger mortgage. So i bought a sailboat instead of using the money on a condo down payment.
The funny thing is that 5 years later, after i graduated with a nearly useless BA from George Mason University, i ended up working as a moderately successful Realtor out of that office and referred clients to that loan officer.
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Significant parts of the economy well beyond restaurants are already in serious trouble.
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I don’t think we have seen economic trouble yet
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The chart with the data on meal costs and minimum wages has some false equivalency. In France, although the pay is not high the employees are eligible for health care, vacation, parental leave, a pension and other social security net features (they contribute social charges, and the employer even more). Tipping isn’t required, and 5 to 10% (or rounding up) is considered OK for excellent service. Generally, I’ve found service to be quite professional to outstanding. with exceptions typically associated with busy tourist heavy areas.
Really, the US minimum tipped wage is different across the states, from $2.13 to $20 (but the effective guaranteed minimum is typically more, as noted). And some job roles may not be considered tipped service workers. In California, the higher minimum wage means I don’t feel compelled to tip in scenario 2, but I might in other states. In California, the higher wages and the added tips (shared only with service staff, with the server getting the largest cut) can create a sizable disparity between front of house and the kitchen. (Tips can’t be shared with the kitchen; some have added a separate line or charge for the kitchen, while others imply pay more to secure staff )
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that is not right.
whether you make tips or not, the city/state/federal minimum wage applies to everyone.
the $2.13 number is an accounting/taxation artifact.
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That was my point, the chart in the Daily Kos article referenced by ML8000 included a false comparison citing the minimum federal tipped wage in comparison to other countries . In reality, the low end is effectively higher, even in states using the federal tipped min wage and employer-bridged floor. I noted this was discussed earlier in the thread, since the employer must bridge the difference to $7.25. I should have referenced the real effective floor directly, but though people would read the full thread.
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totally ignorant people come up with those charts - and the fiction has stuck.
You are missing the point. I was referring to the Daily Kos article up in the thread. Those other points were already made. I was focusing on the deceptive nature of the chart.
Which makes a YUUUUUGE difference overall.
I believe where wages are directly tied to performance, you will see higher performance, but it doesn’t mean that paying standard wages means service will also drop. If you’re seeing poor service in SE Asia or Europe, it’s not necessarily that they feel no or low effort is fine since they will not be tipped. I think they’re just poor employees or not enjoying a service job, tipped or not.
Japan generally has great service - absolutely non-tip culture, and so anti-tip, that some won’t even accept it if you leave a tip behind. For me, Europe is hit or miss. I had some truly great service in Spain and in the UK, while service in Amsterdam was outright annoying to decent. Amsterdam may be the only major city where I encountered a lot of servers who really didn’t want to be there in that moment doing their jobs. 
In Cambodia, Taiwan, and Hong Kong - I’ve had great service and also a lot of just perfunctory service, but at least quick and to the point for the smaller, family run businesses. What we deem as great service has to be inherent in the training and part of the culture that the boss/manager builds in the team. If they hold people accountable, for sure, people will change their behaviors. In the US, the problem is that they have set the expectation that their good service is built on customers paying for that extra care and attention.
Can you imagine if kitchen chefs and cooks were held to that same idea? I will give you poorly seasoned and prepared food, if you just pay the menu price for the plate, but I will make it amazing if you tip me more.
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I tip generously - and hate our tipping culture all at the same time.. It has gotten insane. I now tip less than I did before because I’m so tired of everyone asking for tips everywhere.
I do think this misconception needs to be addressed though. Everyone in every state makes minimum wage - period. In MA I think that is now $15/hr. The employer is required to pay the $6.75/hr but if tips don’t cover the difference the employer must cover the difference.
It’s a technical difference but true.
People doing counter service are not “tipped” employees so tipping 20% seems very generous for the free labor of being your own server
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Every time I see this logic, I have to pipe up.
The right way to think of “tipped minimum” in all states (and federal) is the minimum wage is the minimum wage, and the worker WILL make the minimum wage (at least).
If the tips don’t meet minimum (regular minimum), the owner ponies up the rest. In MA, this “true up” is done per shift. (many other places, it’s per week). Therefore, if you’ve got a shift and no one walks in the door at all, the owner pays regular minimum for those hours.
It’s better to think this way: you’re paying the owner on the difference between “tipped minimum” and “minimum”, not the server.
However, if the server is making more than minimum, they keep the whole thing. Depending greatly on the place, this is often between $30 and $40. VARYING GREATLY.
Owners kinda of like this system, because they capture about $10/hr without rasing prices. They don’t love the idea that 20% of the gross of the entire restaurant is going to the one front of house staff member.
In reality, servers usually make 2x the money as anyone else in the house, from what I can see. Worse in california where there is no “credit” and the servers make the minimum plus take all the tips (coerced tip pooling is illegal
I’ve been hanging out on Reddit EndTipping, and it’s kind of ugly in there.
Still I have trouble breaking training. I’m working to say no for counter service, and 15% for sit-down.
I just have trouble with that one position making 2x more than the other positions, and hurting the restaurant industry (“if you can’t afford to tip, don’t eat out”)
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