Babette phrased it better than I did. I should have written “aesthetically digesting” to drink chemically synthesized wine, not “morally”
That makes more sense to me. I would probably find wine that’s been dyed bright green, or combined with pickle brine, to be aesthetically disgusting. Or I might not, since I haven’t actually encountered either. It’s hard to say.
Clearly we have different priorities.
- I prefer nature to artificial, and there is nothing natural about this artificial/imitation wine. 2) I support sustainable agriculture, and shop, for example, at farmer’s markets for organic produce AND meats. 3) I believe this “imitation wine,” as you call it, DOES do harm: a) it harms the value of any remaining bottles of the real 1973 Chateau Montelena Chardonnay; b) it brings into question the “authenticity” for every other bottle of wine that is in the market – is this wine real or synthetic? is the wine inside the bottle really what the label says it is? (This is ALREADY an issue, but now it gets compounded.)
Finally, this isn’t the Starship Enterprise where all the food and drink comes through the replicator;, nor is it the International Space Station, where everything is freeze-dried and the water comes from recycled urine. There are grapes, and the top quality vineyards are dry-farmed, mostly organic/bio-dynamic, and the level of chemical fertilizer (total) is one-tenth of what the trade used a generation or so ago (none, obviously, in organic vineyards).
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Sure, but don’t we all have to make some compromise? I mean. The kind of corn, wheat, rice we eat are so different from their original form. This is also true for cattle, pigs, chicken… They have all been selected breed to the point that they are very different.
I feel this is a bit of attacking this approach in both directions. In one way, we are claiming this synthetic approach is nowhere as good as the natural traditional way. In the other way, we are also suggesting this synthetic approach may be TOO good. So good that they harm the value of the traditional method wine.
By the way, I am not actually supporting synthetic wine, but I don’t think we need to strongly oppose it neither. If indeed there is an easier way to get to the same result, why not consider it? We don’t farm by an ox plowing the field. We don’t ride horses to work. We rarely hammer or cast our cookware anymore… Instead of reheating my last night meal in a pot and pan, I reheat it in a microwave…etc.
True, however . . .
People/“industry” have begun to realize that too much “breeding” is no good. The pendulum is swinging the other direction, whether it’s heirloom varieties of tomatoes, beans, or other vegetables/fruits; or heritage hogs, turkeys, etc.
If you misunderstood my point, I apologize. In no way, shape, or form did I [meant to] suggest that this synthetic $#|+ is “too good.” The harm that is causes vis-a-vis the value of what you are referring to as “traditional method” wine is not in its quality, but rather by its mere existence.
Wines are already being questioned as to their provenance due to fraud. People can photoshop labels, etc. Rudy Kurniawan is but the highest profile “fraudster” to be caught. One way in which the fraud can be detected is by sampling the wine and running it through a GC/MS.
If a synthetic wine mimics the GC/MS signature of the real one . . . how do you detect the fraud? Now, I don’t know if that’s true – that it does accurately mimic the signature – but if it does, then its very existence (and not its taste) is the threat.
Keep in mind, too, that we aren’t talking about synthesizing some White Zinfandel or Central Valley jug wine, but (some of) the finest, most famous wine(s) out there.
The question is . Why would you even buy a synthetic drink ?( You can call it what you want but it is not wine . Wine is a alcoholic beverage made from fermented grapes . ) When you could reach for the real thing .
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Preparation for life on Mars.
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As I said above, because there are people who will drink anything that will give them a buzz. Did Two Buck Chuck (post grape glut) come anywhere near close to tasting like decent wine? Yet TJs sells millions of cases a year. Sure… it’s ‘wine’, but just barely.
We might! Mine are (in no particular order) living as well as possible without working too hard, trying not to screw things up too badly, and keeping a cool head and an open mind.
I support not engaging in virtue-offs. But since you started the round, I grow some of my own produce on my balcony, buy some of it at the Union Square Greenmarket, and don’t buy any meat at all because I don’t eat any meat at all. I also use public transportation 99% of the time and live in a multi-unit building. Do I win?
For the life of me I cannot see how, unless you truly believe that the real wine and the synthetic wine will be indistinguishable from one another. If that proves true then yes, the real wine will be worth less because its scarcity will no longer impact its value. And all and sundry might then be able to partake in what was heretofore limited to the moneyed and/or well-connected. Oh, no!
As you note, this is not a new problem, nor is it particular to wine - fish fraud and olive oil fraud are well-documented. I would be firmly behind strict regulation to ensure that you’re getting what you think you’re getting. And there must be producers and vendors you trust to not sell you god-knows-what, so…buy from them, maybe?
I occasionally have my own “ew, gross” reaction to what people will eat or drink (like this terrifying thing). But ersatz wine doesn’t move the needle for me at all, especially since it strives to be like regular wine. Which is also made of molecules.
Not even barely . It is not a alcoholic beverage made from fermented grapes . No fermentation , no grapes . Not wine .
Ummm… I was referring to Two Buck Chuck.
Got it .
a) Sorry. I wasn’t aware it was a contest. I was merely outlining what I try to do in my life, and the thought of artificial/synthetic anything is something I try to avoid. What others may or may not choose to do is up to them. Period.
b) I cannot make you see what you do not. But 40+ years in the wine trade have helped to form my opinions. Additionally, conversations I have had with others – from winemakers to importers to sales representatives to sommeliers – indicate I am not alone in these opinions. This does not make me right; it only makes me “not alone” in holding this point-of-view. Only time will tell if I am right in my concerns, or if they are in fact misplaced.
c) Compared to olive oil, wine is as tightly controlled as fissile material! I was not referring about the hectoliters of olive oil produced from olives grown in one country, but bottled as the product of another; or “pure” passed off as Extra Virgin.
Wine at the winery is regulated every step of the way. TTB Form 5120.17 has to be filled out monthly, and account for every drop – from grape to bottle. (Your tax dollars at work: wine must be bottled in metric containers – 375ml, 750ml, 1.5L, 3.0L, etc. – but the forms must be filled out in gallons; go figure!)
But the type of fraud I was specifically referring to above involves individual bottles of aged wine from high-end estates which collectors then sell at auction. Sometimes, the wines are real. But for the unscrupulous among us, the desire to create fake bottles of older, rare vintages which were extremely limited in the first place, is too much of a temptation. Again, look at Rudy Kurniawan . . .
Thanks for the interesting info about the wine regulations, and the link to the VF article. I remember reading about Kurniawan in the New York Times a while back.
Artificial means “produced by human beings.” Wine is artificial. It doesn’t just happen. We have to make it happen. I have the same issue with the way people proudly declare that they avoid “processed” food. Bread is a processed food. Honey is a processed food. Pretty much all of agriculture is both artificial and a process.
I can understand a mistrust of food that’s pretending to be other food - that’s what your faux Chateau is. But the mistrust seems less about the food than the pretense. Like those wine auctions in the VF article seem less about the wine than the acquisition of it.
Do you even understand how wine is made? It is NOT artificial by any stretch of the imagination! Grapes are their own complete winemaking kit. They come covered in yeast that will ferment their sugar into alcohol on their own. Just ask the thousands of birds (or other animals) that get drunk every year from ingesting ripe grapes.
If you want to go ahead and pick nits, feel free. Human beings have to bottle the wine, just as humans have to harvest and package the strawberries, or squeeze the orange juice, or slaughter the steer and butcher its meat into steaks. Are strawberries artificial? Orange juice? Steaks?
Give me a break – I’m done here . . .
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Your concern is understood about fraudulent wine.
Let me use a different example (kitchen knife) and see if you understand my position
A long time ago, forged knives are much better in quality than stamped knives. Therefore, forged knives were more expensive than stamped knives – both because of the labor involved (cost) and the performance.
However, stamped knife technology has gotten a lot better throughout the years that today’s stamped knives are just as good as forged knives, and sometime better. All the Shun knives, Global knives, Miyabi knives you heard of are all stamped (certainly not forged). Many good stamped knives have gotten more expensive, and on average, forged knives have gotten less expensive.
I understand that if you are trying to get a forged knife, you shouldn’t be sold with a fraud stamped knife. I don’t think small h and I are saying that.
What I am coming from is that: Why try to stop people from making knives in a different way? If people want to come up some creative ways to make new wine (or we can change the name), why stop it? It is not illegal, toxic… people are going to try to do it anyway.
I feel like you trying to stop development of electronic piano because it is a REAL piano.
That would be helpful in this discussion.
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I’m thinking one’s view is how much skin one has in the game.
A “real” Shelby Cobra goes for millions. If I had a real Snake in my garage, I would be horrified at all the clones showboating around with “Cobra” badges. That said, the better made cobra clones handle better, brake better, and have much more horsepower than the originals. Since I may never have the coin to buy an original, I would be more than happy to own a well made clone. It may not be original, but the clones have the same beautiful lines, with a great fun and wow factor.
Fine vintage wine prices have exploded over the last decade or so. If I had a cellar full of 1st Growth Bordeaux and DRC’s collected over the years at more down to earth prices, I would abhor the possibility of price degradation of my collection’s value by technological substitutes. Since I can’t just casually open and enjoy a bottle 1990 Chateau Lafite purchased years ago for 10% of today’s market price, I would welcome the chance to taste a reasonable facsimile to learn more and appreciate the qualities of the wine.
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Electric pianos are electric pianos. Electric guitars are electric guitars. Both certainly have their place. BUT they DO sound different than a “regular” (think concert grand) piano or an acoustic guitar. These differences certainly do not stop beautiful music from being created/performed on both. But no one is claiming they are the same. Indeed, the differences are to be celebrated – Eric Clapton will choose, not merely electric v. acoustic, but from among many different electric or acoustic guitars to obtain the precise sound he desires. No one is claiming that a Martin or a Gibson or a Fender or a Gretch or a National sound identically to one another, anymore than a Steinway sounds the same as Beckstein, or a Stradivarius sounds the same as a Guarneri or a ZETA . . . .
