Is that site like The Onion? I remember reading (in a non-satirical publication) about a group of people trying to extend their lives with caloric restriction, and thinking that’s definitely not worth it.
You dont actually live longer…it just feels like it.
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It’s not like I want to die sooner. But I also don’t want to live just for the sake of being alive longer. When all I’m going to do with my extra time is think about my next tiny meal.
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There are a lot of issues involved in protecting the planet. It’s true that each first world human creates enormous climate debt and that responsibilisation (‘our individual purchase power is the answer! ‘
) is not that helpful either. (Corporations need to change practice; agribusiness is a problem) But the only good thing about billionaire in space is that hopefully they won’t come back. That plan is ludicrous from the most practical standpoint and is testament to how there is such a thing as too much money. I say cook and eat the rich and redistribute the wealth into social support systems. To make this about HO, let’s share recipes for that.
Also; I continue to love and support restaurants with vegetarian and vegan options. I’m not vegetarian although I eat a largely plant based diet but I enjoy the offerings. And I’m delighted to live in a city where there are so many options. (Although I am gutted that our vegetarian institutions, Henderson’s, was one of the first restaurant victims to Covid.)
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I don’t agree with you, certainly not respect to self-made wealth like Gates, Bezos, Branson, Buffet, Musk. Taking away their resources and redistributing them reduces the ability to generate wealth in the truest sense since few people have the expertise, creativity, vision, and attitude to do it. Wealth in the truest sense is the development of new knowledge and new abilities.
There has been a lot of technology transfer from space development and exploration to society at large. The best imagery interpretation available for mammography (breast cancer detection) came from spy satellites. Overhead imagery is used for tracking crop development, disease progression, and drought impact. Lots of important technology has been developed as a means in the support of wealth in the crude sense of money. Electric light bulbs. Refrigerators. Semiconductors.
We know from direct observation that utopian efforts based on socialism simply don’t spur the creativity and innovation of capitalism. The pure human misery in the Soviet Union and in today’s Cuba are nearly overwhelming. Virtual places like HO don’t exist because sustaining life is too hard for such luxuries.
Part of the reason, in my opinion, that socialism fails is that there is no measuring stick for ability. People gain position with responsibility and authority without ability. We see this in the US in inner city school systems that spend prodigious amounts of money with poor outcomes. The ultimate resource is human capability but the American social answer is “more money.” Here in Annapolis, social services hasn’t figured out how to get food to the people who need it so the food rots. Enough money. Bad management. We saw the same thing in Puerto Rico after Irma and Maria. Food rotting on the docks. Bad management. Poor planning. In that case corruption as well.
Do you really think a socialist government could or would do what Elon Musk is doing with Starlink that is on the verge of bringing the Internet anywhere in the world to horribly disadvantaged communities? Compare the effectiveness (or lack) of UN’s WHO in the face of COVID to what the charity of Bill Gates has wrought. Sam Walton bringing real options for food and goods to American’s across the country, and Jeff Bezos bringing much of that to your doorstep. COVID would have been much worse without the initiatives of private industry for curbside pickup and delivery.
You have a right to your opinion. I think it is shortsighted and wrong.
Dave - I am genuinely surprised that the mods are letting this thread continue in its current form. You are way, way across the other side of the “no politics” line.
I will happily debate the issues I have with multinational capitalism but this is not the forum to do that.
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To bring this discussion back to food, rather than offering any sophisticated, data-driven arguments, I’ll describe my personal experience with vegetarianism/veganism. As a kid growing up in a meat-leaning household (Korean), I was repulsed by all forms of meat/fish (but mostly meat) at an early age (7 or 8 years old). When faced with a plate of flesh, skin, ligaments, muscle, I couldn’t stomach the thought of eating any of it, though my parents tried to force me. I recall many dinners where I sat there until bedtime, food uneaten. I was a very skinny kid, but survived. My vegetarianism continued well into my 30’s with a brief stint as a vegan. I remember the first time eating at a veggie-leaning restaurant and breathing a sigh of relief that I didn’t have to worry about consuming any animal/fish flesh. I remember fondly a few days I was solo in Athens in the 90’s. Back then, all I relied on was a hard copy of Lonely Planet and another book about vegetarian restaurants in Greece from the library and I found my Mecca (or Acropolis, if you will). I love Greece, but it’s not the easiest place for a single Asian, vegetarian girl (without a kitchen) to travel. And this restaurant (I wish I could remember the name, but it was not far from the madding crowds) welcomed me with open arms. The husband-and-wife team were so lovely and brought me plates of beautiful vegetarian food (I was not vegan at this point, so I indulged in gorgeous Greek cheeses). I went back two more times during my short trip.
More recently, I started eating seafood as responsibly as I can. And, hell, once in a while I crave a burger or steak tips (that’s a New England thing). My husband is an omnivore but since being with me, his meat consumption is down to a few times a month, favoring seafood or vegetarian. He truly believes it’s better for the earth and better for him (and as older parents of a 6.5 year old, we are seeking the fountain of youth). I think back to my vegetarian years (~20 years) and am so thrilled by the rise of restaurants catering to that. The best vegetarian restaurants can sparkle and shine with exciting food. And the ones that don’t, well, folks can sit back and relax and not worry. The royal “we” (because I still feel connected to vegetarians, albeit lapsed) can escape the tyranny of our meat-eating youths as I once did. There have always been plenty of restaurants where omnivores can eat comfortably (and not have to worry about eating lentils although legumes are good for digestion). It’s about time vegetarians/vegans can, too.
@Auspicious I don’t know who is preaching to you, but maybe you’re hanging out with the wrong crowd. My veggie friends definitely do not proselytize.
Edited: The title of your post is somewhat ironic. For many years, vegetarians had no options when eating out, save for a pasta dish that was an after thought. And now you are seeking options when you eat out? I find that a flawed premise.
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So much this. And to demand that ALL restaurants accommodate omnivores (or to whine because they don’t) is the same mindset that spawned myriad other “but I’m in the majority! why can’t I have EVERYTHING?” movements. Which I will not name, because politics.
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Southern Europe excels in vegetarian food. Members of my extended family are Spanish and we discussed this once. I asked why, with all those lovely dishes, do you rarely see them on restaurant menus, even away from tourist areas. It was explained that the vegetarian dishes evolved during times of poverty. But, if you are eating out in a restaurant, you are clearly not poor and, therefore, do not want to be eating veggie food. Hence no demand.
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Thank you.
Simply not my experience. Lot’s of judgmental adjectives (“better,” “healthy”) and verbs (“should”).
The discussion here keeps coming back to describing me as demanding. I’m not demanding anything at all. I am making an observation that the veg community asks for and gets veg options in mainstream restaurants but the reverse is not the case. I think the overall defensiveness in this discussion supports the thesis.
I am not asking for nor expecting any change at all. I have made an observation. I have contrasted that with the availability of chicken, fish, and veg in steak houses, and the availability of chicken, burgers, and veg in seafood houses. I’m certainly not demanding the option of an animal protein in a veg restaurant. I am pointing out a disparity. I honestly thought that would lead to a more civil discussion exploring the issue.
The best counter offered here has been the analogue of vegetarianism to religious dietary restrictions like kosher, halal, and Hindi restrictions. So like religions, vegetarianism is a choice that in some cases does lead to extremism.
I’ve had owner-aboard training yacht deliveries and cooked veg, kosher, and halal. I consulted a rabbi for guidance before the kosher trip (the cooking isn’t hard, it’s the rules about cookware and tableware and elapsed time). I took those as opportunities for learning and growth. Definitely stretched my repertoire.
In the UK, there has been a ruling at a lowly level of the justice system that “ethical veganism” is a philosophical belief and therefore a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010. This concerned a guy who was dismissed from his employment for remarks made about his employer’s pension scheme. He claimed the remarks were made due to his ethical beliefs and the tribunal ruled in his favour that veganism was a relevent belief. It was expected that this ruling may have been challenged all the way to the Supreme Court but, in the event, a settlement was reached and legal proceedings terminated.
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Re poverty: During the Depression, NYC Mayor LaGuardia read a recipe for pasta e fagioli on the radio to help people who only knew meat and potatoes to feed their families more cheaply.
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No, you’re not. Because saying
is a complaint that it’s “unfair” for restaurants not to serve meat, because there are more meat-eaters than non-meat-eaters. By this metric, since more people eat non-Kosher than Kosher, Kosher restaurants should offer a non-Kosher option. And since (probably) more people eat pizza than pad see ew, Thai restaurants should offer a pizza option. You know, for fairness. Right?
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This is interesting. That means ethical veganism gets the same protection as religions, right?
What makes this particularly interesting is the boundaries. Please forgive me for a US perspective - I don’t know the UK legal system. Of course much depends on just what the court found. I’d think that a vegan whose pension plan invested in meat packing plants should be able to complain as protected speech. Said vegan should not be able to constrain the company from investing in legal things that are in the interests of the pension plan and the covered workers. Now if said vegan works for a meat packing plant and is complaining about the investments of the pension plan then s/he has pretty well lost the moral high ground. grin
I’m not sure if the US legal system protects “philosophical belief” as a protected class the way organized religion is. If not, that puts Buddhists on shaky ground.
From a simplistic perspective the conclusion that ethical veganism is a philosophical belief and therefore protected may have interesting implications downstream. Tax for example. Is a 100% vegan restaurant a place of worship? What does that mean for VAT? In the US we have had issues with businesses opening near churches. Would a McDonald’s next to a vegan restaurant intrude on the vegan beliefs?
Is this the case? https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/03/uk-court-rules-ethical-veganism-beliefs-must-be-protected-in-law.html .
In essence, yes.
And your CNBC link is to the correct case. It is a very early stages matter - tribunal decisions are not binding case law - and, as I said, this one isnt going any further.
The difficulties of equality legislation seem to come to the fore quite often these days. Perhaps no better example than the ongoing “gay cake” saga - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/15/gay-marriage-cake-customer-takes-case-to-european-court
We’ve had a number of similar cases in the US. I believe the precedents here are somewhat contradictory with one another. Consistency doesn’t seem to be one of our strong points.
Does the ECHR have jurisdiction in the UK post-Brexit?
Thankfully, yes.
“But the only good thing about billionaire in space is that hopefully they won’t come back. That plan is ludicrous from the most practical standpoint and is testament to how there is such a thing as too much money. I say cook and eat the rich and redistribute the wealth into social support systems. To make this about HO, let’s share recipes for that.“
Interesting that no one mentioned this or tried to bring it to the attention of anyone. What else is new here…
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Sooner or later some won’t. They are planning a space tourism industry with many flights.
Consider this. There were one hundred thirty five space shuttle flights and two didn’t make it. That’s a one in sixty seven and a half percent chance of not making it back. Very short odds.
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750 persons so far booked at $250, 000 per. $175M for starters… Rich people and putting their kids up in space. What goes up must come down. Hopefully they all stay up.
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