Leff said on his blog that he’s worried the whole archive might disappear, so in that sense I guess he recognizes that this makeover is more profound than previous ones (which were all basically much cosmetic). He didn’t seem aware that archive.org has snapshots.
I don’t think he understands the long-term implications of the changed user focus, since he’s repeating his bit about bad software thinning the herd of the less determined posters.
We are not talking about the possible of loss of ancient human history documents or the destruction of the Pyramid. Chowhound archive information while valuable is not as valuable as the living human knowledge. When a person has a question about “What is a good Chinese restaurant in San Francisco?” or “I want a good stainless steel cladded pan?”, they don’t spend 15-30 min looking through the achieve. They post a question on the forum and expect knowledgeable suggestions and discussions. Moreover, for many topics and discussions, the current information is more relevant than a post from 10 years ago. I want to know a good Indian restaurant today in Philadelphia, not one from 10 years ago.
I think Leff just felt he has to say what he has to say.
He doesn’t seem capable of commenting without taking an ugly swipe at all those who’ve moved on. Olive Garden, really???
It isn’t a swipe… at least not an effective one. For one, Olive Garden is in a better shape than Chowhound right now. So comparing us to Olive Garden is much better than comparing us to Chowhound. Just saying.
Yesterday I looked at a post about the L.A. Times article that had been up on CH for 8 hrs. without removal. I found the comments interesting. A number of posters I was not familiar with mentioned that those CH’s who left were basically grouchy, cliquish, etc. One of the reasons I liked CH was that most of the posters were welcoming and shared without condescension. Guess everyone has their own take on thing…
But it is a good reminder that a newbie may be intimidated or feel hesitant about joining an established group. Hopefully we can keep a warm welcome for the people who find us here later.
I saw those messages. I almost wanted to comment, but I just don’t think these people can understand. They either don’t have the ability to understand or they don’t want to understand. People should not have loyalty to a particular website. People can have loyalty toward each others, or loyalty toward a belief, but not to a website. Moreover, the website (Chowhound) changed, not the people. I hate to use this overly used phrase, but this really describes the situation:
We didn’t leave Chowhound. Chowhound left us.
By every measures (web graph design, priority, spirit, and people), Hungryonion is the inheritance of the old Chowhound, not the redesigned Chowhound. It is fine that these people want to type “www.chowhound.com”, I understand that, but please… please don’t confuse about who are the ones left chowhound in spirit and in community. I didn’t leave the redesigned Chowhound because I am angry or upset. I left because I don’t recognize the place. I don’t see much commonality with me anymore.
Hey Chem,
Good to find old friends.
I left because they repeatedly deleted my criticisms of the inability to navigate the site and they finally revoked my membership as they did so many other long timers who spoke their minds. I do hope the gang checks out these other sites and joins.
Tom
I considered replying. But if those posters don’t understand where our criticisms were coming from by now…any post from a refugee would just sound like more sour grapes.
I could deal with most of the changes. Not happy with the inconvenience but if I really wanted to it is doable. I can not continue to actively participate in a forum where tptb lack a basic appreciation of the topic and don’t value the fragile, precious nature of community.
I’m sure CH will continue. The new sites might help keep CH honest. It’s easy to be cocky when you think you’re the only game in town.
I feel we are building community here and it is wonderful to see so many finding HO.
I’m really surprised the LAT article didn’t mention the heavy censorship and propensity for deleting comments…
I am sorry. They revoked your membership for something like that. That is not good.
The author was made aware of it…
In all honesty I hit them pretty hard a few times but what they fail to understand is that many of us are not computer / electronic gadget savvy. We never had a TV remote growing up & PC’s were not a consumer product yet. We had about 30 PC’s in HS but the internet didn’t exist & they were used for teaching programming logic & it was pretty much the same in college.
At this point many my of generation (last of the boomers) have had limited computer exposure at work and manage to learn just enough to get by. On the other hand, my kids grew up with computers / I Pads / smart phones / TV remotes with 50 buttons and manipulating them is second nature.
My guess is that the folks calling the shots at Chow Hound would fall into the latter category and they never gave an ounce of consideration to those of us who fall into the former category. Very poor MGMT decision given our % of the adult population.
Random thoughts/comments . . . .
Were there volunteer mods in the era of C|Net and CBSi? I didn’t think so. But I’ve lost count of how many times my posts were deleted for alleged violations that would be frightening, were they not so (IMHO) hysterically funny. (Who knew one could have their sense of humor surgically removed?)
For example, as when I paraphrased The Who’s song, “Won’t Get Fooled Again” and got censored:
Personal attacks to any member of the community or staff are not tolerated and are against our guidelines.
“Meet the new Georges
Same as the old Georges . . .”
Marcela Benitez
Community Manager | Chowhound.com
I still think it’s funny, but the total insensitivity to the user base vis-a-vis the new design was the last straw. I still use Chowhound to search for topics – mostly re: restaurant recommendations for cities I’ve not been to previously – but I won’t post there ever again.
Don’t get me wrong: Chowhound, and CBSi, is a for-profit enterprise, and they have EVERY RIGHT to do whatever they want, whenever they want. I do not begrudge them that. But, as occurs all too frequently in the World of Business, doing what they have the right to do isn’t always the right thing to do . . . in this case, Chowhound and CBSi forgot that the site exists BECAUSE of the users. To alienate their user base to such a degree, and with such open disregard and callousness, is detrimental to their very goal: increasing the proverbial bottom line. People have left in droves, and overall traffic is down. How does that make the site more profitable???
In all seriousness, I expect Chowhound to survive. It may be a shell of its former self, or it may recover and develop a different user base. Only time will tell, in that regard. But there is no denying that a number of former Chowhounds have moved on, most never to return . . .
I was introduced to technology in my teens and have worked with / in it for the whole of my adult life. I’m reasonably savvy with learning new software and hardware.
The new CH interface is not user-friendly or intuitive to me. The overall movement in web design has been toward mobile friendly (hence the scrolling) but also user-friendly. The new design requires far too many steps to be the latter.
It’s no longer what CH has always been: a discussion board (and it used to be easily recognized as such to a newcomer).
I understand that the redesign is intended to increase views of ads (revenue for CBSi), but I no longer understand the purpose of the site.
Maybe they think they have enough data in the archives that they can immediately provide an answer to a cooking or ingredient question coming in from a web search. But the repository of restaurant data is going to quickly age and become irrelevant unless people are constantly updating it. I don’t see the latter happening.
This may be why they destroyed the regional boards: focus on the perennially relevant information (how to cook a turkey) and let the regional, restaurant stuff disappear.
I remember that, J, and it was funny! CHEERS. We’re in a better place now. 
Tom, a few years ago, someone (Chemicalkenetics perhaps?) had us give our age. It was in the mid40s IIRC and that was probably five years ago. So I think your point is good. Not that they gave me the chance - haha! - but I don’t want it to be that hard. This is MY job.
On the other hand, our generation was the first generation to USE these devices-- so arguably even more savvy in terms of workarounds and how webistes and forums actually work.
I also bristle at the suggestion that I’m too old, too stupid, and/or too set in my ways to be able to learn something new.
As technology progresses, things are supposed to become MORE intuitive and LESS requisite of long FAQ’s and How-to’s, right? Exactly the opposite of what they did with CH.
Zwiebelhash: “I was very surprised to read Leff’s statements (at the end.)”
Gee, I don’t know why.
Leff “:Bad interfaces can be helpful; they filter out the Olive Garden set.”
When Leff praises bad interfaces, trust me, he’s speaking from his own experience. I mean, did you READ Chowhound in the 90’s? That had to be one of the worst interfaces ever and yet the place was packed with interesting people. Interesting people who fought like cats and dogs! Back then that bad interface really DID filter out the Olive Garden set. So while it’s obviously insulting (and again, you have read Leff before, right?) there’s a logic to it. Make your posters WORK to be on your site!
But he’s wrong because:
Robert Lauriston:
“Leff doesn’t get how this change is different. The changes that are making it harder for people to post in a regional-community-centric fashion are intended to bring in the clueless crowd to ask casual one-off questions”
This is the core problem. This redesign is meant to chase off Hounds and bring in the less knowledgeable.
Excellent point, sunshine, re intuitive. When I’ve looked at the new site (can’t resist taking a gander at the latest on ST every day) my first reaction is just ‘oh, no, too hard.’ I’m sure you’ve all read Steve who is a strong supporter of CH right now. He’s been there so long I don’t think he can imagine that there’s anything better. And, btw, I seem to be getting all I’m needing here. For now. And we’ll grow the site as more people cook and dine and travel.
Yeah, the “50” came and went. Clearly better if the the years keep coming though.
I wondered what happened to you Cathy. Last I heard you aged a Rib and then were going away on a trip & I never heard from you again.
