Knife talk

Cooking Discussions Cookware
83

Hi Ray, great post, lots to digest… :slight_smile:

Ray, he used to be a 3 star Michelin chef… :slight_smile: One of the best chefs to ever come out of the UK. I’m pretty sure he has spent his time “exploring the possibilities” of knives.

Again, he is a 3 star Michelin chef (or rather, used to be, before he decided to forego the whole Michelin circus).

Seemed like a perfectly fine tool for the job. I think Charlie mentioned that it looked like a Victorinox? I also would like to point that a lot of others would characterise your aliexpress and Shun knives as beater knives. In the other thread you can see Marco using a Mac Pro gyuto.

I’m a home cook as well, and Marco gives me a perfect example of how things should/could be - it’s not the tool that’s important but the cook. He reminds me of my mum, an excellent home cook, always using cheap knives but also always sharpening them the moment they become dull.

He is using a form of a pinch grip here. Having a bolster is irrelevant in being able to use a pinch grip by the way, as you’re holding the knife by the neck so to speak.

The cutting style one uses depends amongst other things on whether there is a belly or not. In Marco’s case, with the belly on the knife, he is rocking indeed. Because he cannot easily push cut with that profile.

In the end it doesn’t really matter, a cook should do what works for him. There is no right or wrong. Yes, a nakiri is a great knife for vegetables, but as long as the tool works for someone, that should be perfectly acceptable.

https://www.finedininglovers.com/article/how-many-michelin-stars-marco-pierre-white

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84

An interesting question occurred to me. Just what is a “beater” knife? Is it a knife you just never liked in the kitchen, so you grab it to open cans? Is it a knife that was extremely inexpensive compared to your other knives or aspirations? Is it no name or a name you look down upon, or perhaps a knife whose provenance offends you? I maintain there are neglected knives and broken knives that cannot be repaired. If it can still be sharpened, it is not a beater. You may still dislike it, but if is truly sharp, someone would love to have it.

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85

I was going to reply with my Tojiro DP Chef’s knife as my beater knife, and then I realize I use the term “beater knife” different than others. I don’t think I have a beater knife within my reach. I can find some beater knives in storage.

My previous definition just means a main knife which I do not mind in taking some tougher task, but I do not think that is the right definition.

86

It’s what you’d consider a beater knife, your own definition of a knife you wouldn’t mind abusing. It doesn’t have to be derogatory. My beater knife is my old Thai Kiwi but it’s a knife I love and used extensively at some point as my only serious knife.

Usually it’s the knife you upgrade from but are not willing to sell or throw away.

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87

Yes, but I also think it is a normal knife which I don’t mind taking some abuses – but it is not its sole purpose as such. For example, if I take out a thick cleaver and throw bones at it… I won’t call the cleaver a beater knife because in my mind, it is doing what it is designed for and everyone would use it as such. I like to think of a beater knife is still a normal main knife but the one I do not mean taking some abuses and maybe getting it dull faster. In this sense, it is my Tojiro DP. I do have other knives like Dexter and no name knives which can serve as beater knives, but they are in storage. So in practice, my Tojiro is my beater knife.

Yours is a Kiwi?

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88

I guess I don’t have a beater. Bummer. I like the definition you and @damiano use.

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89

Hi Olunia,

You might be right, but I doubt he cares.

He’s a chef, a recognized authority, who presents an insight into cooking. He’s not trying to teach technique–maybe show off a bit.

Charlie’s point is that the knife is no more than a tool: intelligence about cooking is the most important thing. How he holds the knife doesn’t really matter.

And he’s right–as a Chef.

I’/m just a home cook–doing “home cook” things. I appreciate the pros when I go to restaurants, but find them a bit out of touch in the home.

We enjoy using sandwich knives, and beautiful knives that we hardly ever have to sharpen–and we take our time–sometimes fail.

We both have fun–but a different fun.

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90

What is your definition of a beater knife? Just curious. Many thanks.

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91

You praised that Au Sabot on Chowhound so …I got one :woman_shrugging:t3:Lol thanks, Tim.

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92

It got me thinking. It is a philosophic question and answer - and I didn’t catch it. If you only have one knife, then you do not have a beater knife. :wink: A beater knife only exists if there is at least another knife which we try to protect from abuses. If there is only one man in this world, then he is neither tall nor short.

:laughing:

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93

Hoping you like it. I bake my own bread and have avocado toast most mornings. It is fun to use it.

94

Hi damiano,

As a recognized chef, he’s an expert in the restaurant world, but in no way is he an expert in home cooking worldwide: it’s a different kind of skill–and a different kind of fun.

As a European, aspiring to cook similar dishes at home, he may be a great model–but to me, he’s almost comical–if all we’re considering is how to cut up an onion.

I could pull up hundreds of videos showing alternative ways to cut up onions–some really great: some not so much.

He needs to stick to being a chef.

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Would you care to share an effective alternate way to achieve such a perfect brunoise? Since it is such an essential thing in so many dishes, I would guess people would like to know if there is a better way for them to do it. Personally I found his demonstration exceedingly instructive. I would think it would be a result a home cook would strive to duplicate, even if they chose another method. His method is how I learned it in the early 1970s. I have never found a better way.

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It’s a pleasure to use and to look at. I oiled the handle yesterday when I did my boards, a ritual I admit I’m kind of of lackadaisical with. My first bread baking adventure cost me a trip to the dentist for a crown… a fractured molar. The bread just had a good crust and the tooth was weak from too big a filling. Lol. Betty Crocker Black Apron Award for dangerous cooking. Expensive experiment. I will try no-knead some day; I have my pandemic stash of flour and yeast. And I have an avocado staring me right in the face, destined for a powerhouse sandwich (an office-mate used to call the Turf Farm Sandwiches).

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97

Yes, Kiwi.

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Bummer. Happy baking!

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99

Hi Vecchiouomo,

He’s a chef–and he does chef things. You’ve been in the business, and you aspire to cook such dishes.

Not me. I’m only considering his casual way to cut up an onion.

100

Freak accident. Now that I’m getting older, everything falls apart. Without quantifiable provocation.

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101

Aren’t you wiser?

102

Hi Ray,

Marco Pierre White is the wrong example for your statement, because he is that rare professional chef who gave up his three stars and fame to basically become a home cook again. If you look at below video you will see a home cook. Like you, he is just having fun, but in his own way, as someone with extremely honed cooking skills. (Look at extreme knife skills from 3.00 min on)

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