That may not have been the case initially, but tip is certainly viewed as part of the total compensation – not simply something nice to have. It makes up the bulk of the compensation for many workers. Initially may be one thing, but we are talking about now.
I think that is the point of the original post – considering that California does not have tip credit and SF has a $15 minimum wage. Therefore, this is a discussion of an exceptional case – not the norm.
Like I said, I am sure you can do a search on “living wage” on this thread alone and you will find it to be mentioned at least 10 times – not just from me.
But you miss my point. A tip is a tip. Of course, a tip is part of overall compensation. That has never changed.
If you go back to my last post – if everyone decides not to tip, then the waiter will not earn a below-minimum wage salary. The employer is obligated to make up the difference.
So you don’t have to worry about it.
In general, trying to worry about how much money your waiter makes when deciding to tip is a losing cause.
The only way you could do it is if you try to make some subjective (and probably incorrect) judgements about how much money you think your specific waiter makes. It will lead you to all kinds of problems.
If someone is particularly upset about the idea that a 20% tip would lead to a waiter leading an exorbitantly luxurious lifestyle, then he should probably just not tip. But also realize that the decision to not tip would be less related to this legislation but by a specific desire to normalize income across a particular class of worker.
I had friends visiting from Tokyo (originally from UK) last weekend and I took them to It’s Tops for brunch on Sunday. It was admittedly a slow morning with the rainy weather, but we sat grazing for almost 2 hours… They offered to cover the bill and I was completely aghast when we finally stood up to leave and I noticed that they only left 10% on the bill. I wanted to throw in some extra cash but I was only carrying plastic and I didn’t want to embarrass everyone. This seems to be a common occurrence with visiting friends from Canada also… I’m making it a point to spell out proper tipping etiquette with friends and family members going forward to avoid similar scenarios.
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Harters
(John Hartley - a culinary patriot, cooking and eating in northwest England)
171
Unfortunately, many travellers do not bother to acquaint themselves with local tipping cultures. I try to research so I know tips are not expected in, say, France, Belgium & Cyprus; a few coins will be fine in Spain, 10% is the going rate in a number of European countries, including the UK and Ireland, and it’s an eye-watering 20% in America.
20% for competent service is the standard. Anything above and beyond at discretion.
In recent weeks I’ve left up to 27% for exemplar service and I’ve gone as low as 10% for the opposite. I ordered a portherhouse at John’s Grill last weekend (should’ve known better) and it was absolutely inedible; tough, chewy, and mostly cartilage and gristle. I could barely carve five pieces out of it. Dare I say, it was one of the worst cuts of meat I’ve ever been served. I complained and was offered a complimentary glass of Kahlua or something like that… what the hell?! It seems to be their standard apology - same thing happened when the bartender accidentally spilled an entire Manhattan on my wife’s trench coat several month’s back. Anyhow, I politely thanked the server, but explained that I neither like Kahlua cocktails, nor does that really suffice for the poor quality of meat that was served. He simply apologized and walked away. Needless to say, he got a shitty tip.
The thing so confusing about the tipping practice here is that… you don’t know if your waiter got the message. Let’s say you gave 10% tip. He could either interpret that you were upset at his service or you have always been a frugal person. This is particularly the case if you tip at 15%. For many people, 15% is their standard tipping. For others, 20% is their normal and 15% is a statement of unsatisfied service. Yet, the serves probably cannot tell one from another.
any good server would have taken it back or knocked something off the bill to compensate… he offered a superficial gesture and when I (politely) said as much, he simply left the drink on the table, apologized and walked away.
of course they can, and at worst, it’s the server’s responsibility to take it up with kitchen or manager if it’s made known to him/her. i don’t want to start a whole ordeal in the dining room and ask managers to our table. the dish that was served was unacceptable by most any standards and when expressed, the response by the waiter was neither genuine nor sufficient. anyhow, i don’t want to hijack this thread about my crappy meal at John’s. the point is, it’s perfectly reasonable to leave a lesser tip when service is not adequate. perhaps i haven’t translated the events well, but i certainly felt that the service we experienced (that was not the only issue) wasn’t up to par. we literally just blew back from NOLA 2 night prior and had been on a two week dining streak, 2-3 restaurants per day. i felt very comfortable with the tip that i left and felt the food/service underwhelming and the tip was a reasonable reflection. i’ll just add that i’m a regular at the restaurant so I absolutely know what to expect.
edit: is it just me or are the quotes acting kind of screwy on the forum? perhaps i’m doing something wrong? this post was supposed to be in response to linguafood’s reply…
If you’re a regular at the place, I guess you know how much decision power the waitstaff has – and, to be fair, I agree that offering a complimentary drink is pretty lame.
I probably would’ve sent the steak back immediately after cutting into cartilage & gristle and asked for a new one.
Oliverb’s scenario is exactly why I hate our tipping culture in the US. What a server makes is between them and their employer. If you want to leave a few extra coins (or bills) more power to you. But this 20% because we pay then sub-minimum wage has got to stop. (And for much of the US it is still 15% - though big cities approach 20% - for visitors to the US)
What steak the restaurant buys isn’t the server’s responsibility. What the restaurant’s policy on dissatisfied customers is _emphasized text_isn’t under their control. In fact I would argue most of what we use to determine tip amounts in the US is out of their control. I’m sure the waiter doesn’t want each customer to have a 10 min conversation prior to service to lay out expectations.
i agree that it would be nice to move to a system like europe where the industry pays it’s employers living wages (proportional to costs of living: $15 is a start for california but that’s not a realistic salary in san francisco!) and move away from tipping. zazie does this in cole valley, but they’re an exception. are there any other establishments in the city that don’t accept tips? i’d love to see the industry shift gears and move towards stabilizing service positions that offer actual career opportunities with benefits, like in most other countries. anyway, the last point i’ll make on the subject because it’s distracting and not relevant, but the issue about the steak that i referred to earlier, had nothing to do with the server’s control of the quality of meat that the restaurant purchased from it’s suppliers and everything to do with his own professionalism and how he handled my complaint, which is part of any job in the service industry.
I understand. I was just using your post for demonstrative purposes. There are infinite examples of when people use things out of the server’s controls to impact tip amounts - cold food - slow expediting - too long to come to table first time (often a hostess/seating issue) - etc etc etc.
I start to believe it is 15% for most areas, 20% for most cities, and 25% for a few very large cities like New York City, Chicago, Los Angles, San Francisco.
“According to the New York Post, tips may be adding a bigger chunk to your bill. Waiters in Manhattan
now want a 25 percent tip, and some New York City restaurants that print “suggested gratuities” even present 30 percent as an option, the paper reports.”
The coin flip works both ways – advantageous and disadvantageous. Yes, sometime people punish waiters and waitresses for things they have no direct control – like the kitchen being very slow. But sometime also get rewarded for things they don’t contribute, like you had the very best steak that night and you were in a great mood.
