I agree completely with the exception of “famous” aka “very expensive” places.
when one is willing to shell out $200+ per person, there is no acceptable excuse for “ah shit, we had an off day”
a bad day at McDonald’s - okay. a bad day in a high end restaurant - no, that’s not okay.
Would you think it fair to write a positive review based on a single visit?
Agreed.
A year or so back I was chatting with the joint owner of a well known Michelin 1* place, after our meal. His view is that what you’re really buying at that level is consistency. They should be able to produce the same dish night after night, with the same quality, regardless of whether it’s the named chef or a subordinate running the kitchen that night.
Not really, but if I enjoy the first visit there’s a high probability that I’ll go back.
No excuses is our expectation everywhere, although many standalone operations are obviously challenged. The McDonald’s (and most franchises) business model and methods actually make consistency the cornerstone of success:
With a bad first-time experience at a restaurant, you might refrain from reviewing because there’s the possibility that they can do better on future visits.
It’s fine to write a positive review after a single meal there. The place has proved its worth - what more do you expect?
I post on TripAdvisor as well as here, and pretty much use the same review for both places. I agree that a lot of the TA reviews are useless (though often the best/only one can find for out-of-the-way places), but I try to make mine useful.
There are always excuses, and often very reasonable reasons why there’s issues. Was there a twenty minute wait in the lobby before you were seated, even though you showed up on time? Maybe your table is taken up by guests who decided to have one more cocktail and chat awhile after paying their check. Was there a weird delay before your main arrived? Maybe someone sent back their dish and it backed up the kitchen. Was something missing from your order? Any number of people could’ve missed it.
I don’t get annoyed at errors or mistakes like these as long as the restaurant acknowledges the error in some fashion, apologizes, or makes the situation right. The issue comes when they either pretend there isn’t an issue or get huffy when you point it out. That’s when there’s no excuse.
You’ve never “chased” a place? I have. Meaning, your first meal there was great, then you come back again and again, until you realize it was a fluke, or they were just concentrating during their grand opening.
I always think of an opinion after a single or couple visits as a report, and after many visits as a review. Even reports of single visits did actually happen, so it’s useful data as far as I’m concerned. I used to really dislike reports like “it was tasty”, but even those can be useful if you respect the reviewer’s palate based on previous discussions; maybe they didn’t have time to write a full review.
I think everyone understands that reviews are just opinions. Just one piece of information to possibly consider. Someone could’ve had a bad day and then something at a restaurant just set them off. Even if you see bad (or good) reviews, you can still read what’s written in the review to see how those viewpoints align with your preferences. Service doesn’t matter as much to me, but it might to someone else, for example. I once read Yelp reviews for a 2.5 star bakery in Indiana (if memory serves correct) where reviewers complain the bread’s crust was too hard and the bread was too sour. I instantly knew I had to go check it out.
We’ve been kicked out of establishments for, among other reasons, even lukewarm reviews (go for this thing, it’s great, but these other things, not so great.) I always want to know if a place has one thing that is an absolute must-try, so I thought others would appreciate that. Or, for example, for asking lots of questions at bakeries, even something like what’s baked today. You tell me, I will buy it. Some people don’t like that. No hard feelings. Their business, they don’t want a customer like me, I completely understand. Now, I like to think I have pretty good instincts and intuitions. A few minutes of looking around and two or three targeted questions, and I know what I’m dealing with. But it took a lot for me to get here. I had lots of interesting discussions/debates along the way. I’ve refined some of my notions as a result. For example, I now think a soft croissant or a baguette without a crispy crust can still be good. And I’m very upfront now. If a conversation starts, I will let people know early on I post to forums. I will let folks know right away, if they don’t like questions, just be honest and I will go away. (Not so abruptly, but you get the idea.)
I’ve heard it like “those who can’t do, teach” so even that music teacher wouldn’t be exempt. I think lots of people do work in fields they don’t like, and sometimes they’re even good at it. I feel like some chefs/cooks really want to make good food, but just can’t. While others can make good food, but they don’t realize when it’s good and when it’s not. I’ve witnessed a lot of great “make it to specifications” type. It’s just a job for them. I can understand that.
Doesn’t anyone else get employee evaluations? I used to get reviews at work like “needs to accept that an average job is okay” and “good enough will get it done”. I adjusted for a while, daydreamed about moving to Japan. (Everyone in Japan does their work to the best of their ability. If that isn’t true, don’t tell me.) Luckily I found an employer who appreciated my work habits. I understand there is a huge market for cost-effective, average work in all fields. However, I come to CH/HO because that’s not good enough for me in my food hobby. I don’t think I’ve ever posted on Yelp.
I could go on forever. Obviously have thought about this a lot, ever since being kicked out of a shop the first time. Always changing my views on it, though, even changed a little bit while I was writing this.
Please don’t use Hendrix and Bieber in the same sentence.
Having been in the industry for 25 plus years, I can’t do a really bad review. I’ve seen all ends of the business, bad days and fantastic meals, sloppy waiters and even superstar staff having a bad day… It’s a marginal-profit business that consumes 60 hours a week or more for a small business owner, and it’s often thankless, and subject to trends or which way the wind blows. I cannot, in good conscience, play any part in taking a business down, and interfering with people’s livelihood.
I think that sums up how I feel. A particular place prompted me to ask this question. For various reasons I can tell this wasn’t just a bad day. It’s how their food is. But I just can’t bring myself to ding them. I’ve never worked in the business but it’s clear how tough it is. Thanks.
I’m a little unclear as to why you keep getting kicked out of restaurants and bakeries, but I doubt it’s for politely asking for the special of the day.
Not sure what was so offensive you had to doubt my politeness, but everyone’s entitled to their thoughts. I don’t “keep getting kicked out”, just happened a few times. I wouldn’t characterize my have behavior as rude, even after being told to get lost. I wrote too much before and it was all over the place, so my explanation was probably unclear.
Fair is fair, though, if you post any bit of negativity online, or ask more than two questions about what you’re paying for, accept that people could be offended by it and may kick you out. However, I’m interested in communicating to other enthusiasts like myself and, at this point in time, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. If I base my decision on a positive review, and end up wasting my money, why is that okay? It could partly be my fault if I read the review on Facebook or Yelp; I should have understood that review wasn’t meant for a food enthusiast.
If you tell a friend over the phone to avoid an establishment, that’s still a negative comment that could affect a small business. In fact, I would say that’s extremely detrimental because that person is far more likely to consider your opinion over a random internet review.
If you always wait far too long at a doctor’s office, or they always mess up your insurance claims, would it be wrong to write a negative review? If you wrote “7-11 coffee is the worst”, would that be wrong? The franchises are individually operated.
What about how businesses promotes themselves on social media? Everything is smileys, icons, and acronyms, with all sorts of cross-promotion. I find much of what happens in that world misleading, but I know to take any positive anecdote on social media with as much a grain of salt as a negative review. The businesses are doing what best for them, and, as a food hobbyist, I’m doing what’s best for me.
When I started, I used to do wonder if maybe I just didn’t get it, maybe I was genetically inclined to have a bad palate. Wasted a lot of time and money chasing bad food based on top ten lists, magazine awards, UrbanSpoon, Yelp, etc. Finally, I found Chowhound. I wish I had time and money to visit every place and decide on my own, but until that happens, negative reviews from other food lovers are very useful to me.
Nothing at all was offensive; your post did not offend me. But as you state repeatedly that you have a problem with getting kicked out of food establishments, without any context except for saying that you ask a lot of questions about the special of the day, it seemed sort of odd. Your follow-up didn’t clarify, and in fact made your posts even more confusing, so I’ll move on.
Although I replied to your post, I then proceeded to add some more general thoughts. Was a good exercise for me to put my ideas out there and see if I can express myself clearly. Appreciate the feedback.
Others have mentioned that they might post various opinions in review kinds of sites and blogs. I will post opinions occasionally on Trip Advisor, and the conglomerate of my ratings comes in at about “average.” There is a seafood restaurant in our area that gets wildly rave reviews from “everybody” and we met a large group of friends there, including some people from out-of-state who traveled hundreds of miles just for this place. They’d eaten there before. Hate to buck the trend, but there was nothing outstanding about the food, the side dishes were less than lame and over-priced. In fairness, what we ordered was different from all that shrimp that the out-of-staters ordered, and they were in seafood-heaven the whole while. I posted a frank, honest, and specific review, less than glowing. But in context, any reader of TripAdvisor might discount “1 guy’s experience” in favor of many, many positive ones. My opinion may or may not influence the customer flow to a given restaurant, but if I think it might add to some consideration from the public or management, I will post it.
If most TA readers are anything like me, then any post has a very limited lifespan. I would rarely read beyond the first page, or two, and will have formed my impression by then. With a restaurant popular with TA contributors, those reviews may only have been over a few days.
Personally, I really appreciate negative reviews when I’m trying to choose a place to eat. Especially on a site like Yelp or Trip Advisor, the positive reviews tend towards vagueness - “everything was so great!” - and so they’re not really helpful. Instead, I try to see what the negative reviews are complaining about. If, after I read a few, people are clearly complaining about nothing - “they wouldn’t accommodate my unreasonable requested changes to a dish,” or “the waitress didn’t smile enough” - then I’ll go to the place. If, on the other hand, most of the negative reviews are making specific and consistent claims then I’ll usually avoid the place.
It’s like the Tolstoy quote, “All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”
Reluctant, but not opposed to it. I don’t love Yelp, but it can be helpful, because each restaurant gets reviewed by many, at least in NYC. I always look for the negative reviews to see whether the complaints would disqualify the restaurant for me. I look for a consistent pattern. On service issues I find that many people can be understanding of a lapse in performance, unless THEY are the victim. Then, it’s an outrage. I discount those.
