Fish hazard due to histamine levels, not limited to predisposed people


#1

Biogenic amines, including histamine, are the cause of non bacterial food poisoning, often overlooked in food hygiene and dietary recommendations.


#2

I read the article but didn’t understand it. What is the hazard?


#3

Anaphylaxis and/or anaphylactoid reactions. It can happen from histamine in a number of foods, even in folks without a history of histamine reactions or predisposition. It can run from a stuffy nose after eating fish to giant hives or sudden acute airway problems/asthmatic reactions. Heightened enormously with alcohol at the same meal, especially, since some alcohols not only contain histamine (esp. red wine) but alcohol also blocks the enzyme in our guts that metabolizes histamine.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1009464-treatment


#4

Thanks. Is this all fish? Seafood? What are they saying about fish paste? Can it hit anybody in life-threatening form who has previously displayed no allergic reactions to fish?


#5

Could it be that this is part of the original wisdon of the advice not to pair red wine and fish?


#6

Especially shellfish; many folks, including two in my family. have severe food poisoning (my sister) or anaphylactic reactions (SIL at her wedding reception) to shellfish paired with any kind of alcohol. This is due to shellfish’s histamine liberation from mast cell effect, not necessarily its histamine content.

I can’t say where those reccos come from, otherwise.

It can hit anybody; my appliance salesman for my remodel had beers and ballpark hot dogs one day and is alive only because someone sitting near him had a pen barrel and performed a tracheotomy in the stands on him. Never happened before or since; prepared, unfresh, pre ground meats, and heat all increase histamine exponentially, and alcohol blocks histamine metabolism. I told him about histamine in foods and gave him my DAOsin, some information online and the first thing he noticed was that he could sleep normally for the first time in a long time, and now he knows how to prevent a recurrence using food/drink choices, changing food handling at home and DAOsin is a diamine oxidase supplement he can use to cover him when eating out, to metabolize histamine. His doctors never figured it out and he had no way to prevent it happening again with no one nearby to save him.


#7

It’s all finfish wrt histamine and shellfish also with regard to histamine liberating effect from cells in our bodies. It’s all meats, too, but much faster accumulating to toxic levels in fish from moment of catch. Aged meats are tolerated by most folks, but the histamine levels in fish rise so fast from capture that a lot of food science is focused on how to best slow or prevent the rapid increase in histamine. Fish paste is older, processed even more exposed to air/oxidation, mixtures of perhaps less fresh fish, I’m guessing.


#8

Thanks, but it looks sort of like an asteroid strike. There are people drinking wine or beer or cocktails with fish everywhere all the time, and nobody seems to be getting ill. And your story about your remodeling guy indicates that it isn’t even necessarily about fish?

I’m not trying to minimize what you are posting, but I’m not sure what you are recommending people do. Everybody should take DAOsin?


#9

No, I think there’s no need for everyone to take DAOsin! I think if folks know about this, they can decide if that’s something they might need or benefit from, but that wasn’t the intention or focus of my post.

It’s not only about fish, but fish even within the range of what’s been considered safe can trigger a sudden, severe reaction. I thought it was more useful than the spurious meat and cancer link; this is direct cause and effect and proven. I’m not a fear monger, I don’t think folks should be paranoid, but I think information can be used to make choices about provenenance, freshness, handling of foods at home, what to have with fish, and what to do if you think you have a reaction.

It’s just information, not intended to promote food fear. It’s not always fish, histamine is in a lot of foods, including vegetables, nuts, oils, meats, charcuterie especially. The risk is highest with fish even close to the levels considered safe and especially dependent on freshness and what else is in the meal, as the article states. Add spinach (high histamine) and wine and other high histamine foods/veggies and anyone can be made ill.