Why does Italian cuisine have so many rules, compared to other European cuisines?
Are there other cuisines that tell you not to drink something after a certain time?
In Italy, cappuccino is supposed to be a morning drink. I follow this in Italy. I don’t follow this rule when I’m in Canada.
I know Weisswurst is supposed to be eaten before afternoon in Bavaria. I can’t think of any other German food rules off the top of my head. Of course, I haven’t lived there and don’t know that much about the cuisine in terms of rules
Other rules I can think of, that many people break, that cause others to chime in:
No cream in Carbonara
No cream in Alfredo
No cheese on seafood/ lake fish. (This is an Italian rule. Other cuisines mix cheese and seafood/ lake fish)
No tomato in Bolognese.
Do you follow them?
Do you enforce them?
Which other rules come to your mind?
Of course, there are religious dietary rules, for keeping Kosher, Kosher for Passover, for halal foods, for Orthodox Lent, Rastafarian diets, etc. I’m more interested in the regional cultural rules that are not tied to religion for this topic.
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Harters
(John Hartley - a culinary patriot, cooking and eating in northwest England)
2
I’ve never considered Italy has food rules. If I wanted a cappuccino in the afternoon, that’s what I’d order (although my usual order for a “flat white” would probably throw them ).
I suppose the “no cream in carbonara” is similar to “no beef in shepherds pie”. Not so much a rule, just more the actual recipe.
It seems like there are often people speaking up to clarify the original recipe calls for no cream, when 90 percent of the Pastas labeled as Alfredo worldwide probably contain cream.
In Canada, beef is the go to for Shepherd’s Pie, except among foodies, pedants, Canadians with British relative, British immigrants and/or expat Brits. (And maybe a few others)
The average Canadian dislikes lamb or has never tried it, and would be shocked to find Shepherd’s Pie contained lamb if they were to order Shepherd’s Pie in the UK or Ireland. Most recipes published in Canada will call for beef in the Shepherd’s Pie, even though this would be wrong in the UK. The term Cottage Pie is not typically seen on menus in Canada, unless the restaurant is owned by a British or Irish immigrant.
Tradition and longevity often dictate cultural and culinary “rules”. It’s a very longterm thing, centuries or even millennia.
There might be food safety like Kosher or Halal, as well as humane treatment reasons involved. There might be seasonal reasons, as you only eat it at certain times. There could be many reasons why rules are developed. Then you add in the weird like superstitions…and time. In that context think of the game “telephone” where a message is passed along, whispered and the end message is very different from the original message.
For Italy in particular, look at the long history, Roman Empire, and many regions before unification, then mix in other changes or factors over time…and you’re going to get lots of rules. The original reasoning might get lost, especially in modern times when everything seems to be available at anytime and new stuff like tech and modern communication put it in a different context.
“No cream in carbonara” is just what carbonara is. If you put cream in a dish of pasta, it’s not carbonara, it’s something else. Brewing a cup of tea and then calling it coffee—because it’s a hot beverage—still doesn’t mean you made coffee.
Canada has just as many rules about food as you think Italy has, if you think a little harder about it. Are there foods people only eat for breakfast but would never eat for dinner, for example?
My mom could never understand why many 2nd /3rd /4th+ gen Canadians, and her British expat friends, will eat bacon and eggs, or chip and egg (à la Shirley Valentine), or pancakes with syrup for dinner
Or course, our views are based on our experiences.
I recently had a Toronto chef friend raised in Hong Kong tell me I had no right to complain about some crappy dim sum I ordered to go, in the evening, because dim sum was to be eaten indoors and not to go, and because I shouldn’t be ordering it in the evening since it’s a daytime dish. I figure if a restaurant is serving dim sum after it’s traditional time frame, and offering it to go, the shrimp inside the wrapper should be as fresh and tasty as if I ordered it at 11 am inside the restaurant. I know it might cool down a little with takeout, but to suggest I should receive lesser dim sum (the shrimp were off, going bad) because I ordered it in a non traditional manner seemed like poor logic
OK, fine, how about dinner for breakfast then? Would most Canadians eat (for instance) shrimp scampi at 8 AM? My guess is no. “Why does Canada have so many rules about food?”
I don’t think that Canada, which is not a monoculture, has nearly as many rules for what to eat when, compared to Italy, which has more of a dominant monoculture.
I can’t think of any Canadian food rules.
I eat pizza and dinner leftovers for breakfast most days.
Nice point if you’re suggesting I am generalizing about Italy. I am.
The idea that these rules stem from some disease prevention, mainly that pork could carry trichinosis, is no longer regarded so solidly. It seems more likely that other tribes moving into the area brought pigs with them, where the current occupants mainly used chickens or goats. Thus, distinguishing us vs them. THEY eat pork. WE don’t.
Modern food safety makes the initial reasoning outdated but culture is a very strong current that often makes no sense, takes on new meaning or get corrupted. Antonio Gramsci wrote about the power of culture and how it can limit needed change (even obvious self interest) because it becomes engrained and lasts centuries despite logic or science. We can see this very phenomenon today in many areas. People rail against obvious self interest, to their determent, for no good reason except leftover traditions and ideas. Ole Antonio coined it cultural hegemony. It’s some power sh*t.
I’d venture that you might be reacting more to people “enforcing” or freely opining on “rules” that apply to certain cultures vs others.
For example, carbonara and alfredo with or without cream, when recipes both ways are freely found and made all over the place (there’s a masterclass link I included in a recent alfredo thread that parsed variations) whether or not people like it.
However I see all kinds of nonsense with respect to Indian (and other Asian and middle eastern) food that is completely alien to the cuisine, and yet some of the same people probably don’t care, do it themselves, or have no idea.
Kind of the same with pronunciation – which cultures can you not mispronounce names / words / foods from, vs which ones is it ok to say “nah, that’s too hard, I’ll just call them / it what I find easy / convenient”. (Some Italian and Greek names are not than much easier than Sri Lankan or Thai ones, and yet.)
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Harters
(John Hartley - a culinary patriot, cooking and eating in northwest England)
18
Ah. Pineapple on pizza?
The other week, The Guardian reported a Norwich restaurant had a Hawaiian pizza on its menu. Every other pizza was priced at the “normal” price for pizza - £12 - £15 . The Hawaiian? £100. I think they might have been trying t make a point.
Of course, no pineapple on pizza isnt a rule. But it should be. Along with chicken tikka masala pizza.
