Boeuf Bourguignon/Lemmings

Well, not sure I’ll write tons on tourist traps and lemmings. I’ve always liked a relaxed, unself-conscious approach to food and dining and I would recommend it too if I weren’t aware that many of our American friends here want to make the most of their journey and thus avoid nonexperiences. But even a tourist trap can be an experience. I wish people wouldn’t worry so much about tourist traps, unless it is widely acknowledged that they serve bad food. There are two kinds of tourist traps, the ones that mean to cater to tourists and the ones that become a tourist trap out of the blue, without having seen it coming, just because word of mouth, the food press or -erm- food discussion boards have raved about them. If their ecosystem is fragile, it may happen that they can’t keep up with the quality. Some carry on gloriously, unchanged, so there’s really no rule that I can put my finger on. So stop worrying about tourist traps. Some tourist traps can be good. L’Ami Louis is the worst tourist trap of all, though it is not particularly known for catering to tourists since it is supposed to cater to VIPs. Nevertheless, it is a terrible restaurant; whether it’s because it’s a tourist trap or not, I do not know (or care).

Far more interesting is the bœuf bourguignon topic. I usually never order it in a restaurant since I can’t abide dry, stringy beef as they all are except in two cases; when the basic ingredient is beef cheek, and when it’s ordered at Chez Dumonet-Joséphine (yay! I’m Ptipois and I’m back. I just got tired of the name). I must add that I’ve never had tender bœuf bourguignon at someone’s home, but not everyone is so averse to stringy beef as I am. Dumonet is a fantastic chef for slow-cooked things, and last time I ordered it, and that was years ago, it was close to perfection. It was as it should be, rich, dark, sticky, messy, and meltingly tender. I’d never order bœuf bourguignon in any other restaurant except if it were the one under the Pyramide du Louvre back in the early 90s and chef André Daguin were alive. Which he isn’t anymore, unfortunately. Neither is the restaurant. He made it with beef cheek or maybe galinette (the very stringy muscle at the end of the calf, pretty hard to find now) and I never understood how he managed to get that dark, coating, shiny sauce. Come to think of it, maybe it was rather a daube gasconne. It would be worth asking his son Arnaud for the recipe.

I haven’t made bœuf bourguignon at home for decades, actually I recently realized that I had to stop marinating beef in red wine, for it toughens the meat. So I make rendang or gulyas (in my book it’s a soup, it’s a stew only outside of Hungary), or I braise beef cheek, or oxtail, or galinettes, adding the wine after browning. I finish the sauce with a little cocoa powder.

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Bonjour Pti!

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Bonjour Trish !

Hello Ptipois ! Yu so nice hearing from you again!!
…and thanks for your Dumonet confirmation! Deep inside, despite of all the warnings I read, some how based on documentaries I’ve seen by Anthony Bourdain, Rick Steve and a few Youtube postings , Dumonet’s “rich, dark, sticky, messy, and meltingly tender” BB version should taste more than OK?!

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I am not French, and not familiar with that expression, but I can’t help but wonder, who decides what is pejoratve? In my experience, words can become perjorative over time. Like lemmings and “tourist”.

I’m assuming the subject of another thread or forum.

ETA Totally botched the spelling of pejorative in my original post.

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We love vin jaune. And my recent version at Auberge Bressane, in October 2021, was very good. I’m suddenly remembering, I’ve had (and fondly recall) a deconstructed/ beautifully delicate version of it, using only the chicken breast, at tiny and serene Le Kigawa, in the 14eme. But last time we were there, in October 2021, it was not on the nicely limited limited menu.

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I have only had coq au vin twice, once at a celebrated exotic fowl and animal farm outside Beaune, once in Paris, and both times it was most disappointing. Lovely sauce, of course, but man doesn’t live by sauce alone. The chicken was stringy, tough, flavorless, having given its all to the sauce. I’m sure that, given its celebrity, the best is ethereal, but I’ve not had the luxury of encountering that.

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Well considered and said.

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Thanks for bringing ’ Auberge Bressane ’ to my attention. Their menu looks very interesting and contains some really traditional dishes which I think both my companion and I would love to try! Might consider replacing ‘L’Ami Jean’ with it?!..since all the negative comments scattered everywhere, regarding L’Ami Jean being a ’ Tourist Trap ', kind of scares me!

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While we speak of beef Bourguignon, tonight
Screen Shot 2022-04-08 at 6.31.22 PM
we enjoyed a regional spin-off, ouefs en meurette, kind of BB sauce without the B, with poached eggs. Something, Charles, you might well seek out.

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I also find coq au vin somewhat boring, perhaps because I’ve cooked it numerous times within the last couple of years.

WoW what an entry and first post !

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Indeed!

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Hi Charles!
L’Ami Jean IS a tourist trap. It is also a fantastic restaurant, cheffed by one of the most remarkable cooks of our time.
See what I mean? (cf. above)
The place didn’t mean to become a tourist trap. It just happened. And it’s still good.
Why « replace » a restaurant with another? Restaurants are not slots to put pegs into. They can coexist.
You can perfectly keep going to L’Ami Jean and go to L’Auberge Bressane as well. Both places may have ups and downs. All places do.

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To contribute on coq au vin, it’s complicated. It can be the best and the worst of things. Originally there were two versions: coq au chambertin (self-explanatory), the Burgundian version, and coq au chanturgue, the Auvergne version. Both places at the time (17-18th centuries I’d say) being the top wine producers in France, which is still the case of Bourgogne but Auvergne has suffered for some decades before a current revival, but this is off-topic.

However coq au vin was a way of dealing with overaged roosters or retired laying hens with tough meat. That’s the problem of the dish: it takes a sturdy bird, but if the bird is too sturdy, the dish will be dull and dry.

By the way I totally agree with Parn’s preference for coq au riesling or coq au vin jaune being superior to coq au vin rouge, red wine was never great with chicken anyway. Coq au vin was a convenience dish meant to provide a decent sepulture to farm birds who had been useful for a long time. The acidity of pinot noir or gamay d’Auvergne was perfect to tenderize the meat, the body of the wine was good to thicken the sauce, and that’s that. But when white wine was used, it was a different deal. White wine was more of a luxury and implied a more delicate treatment of the bird. That’s why coq au vin is intrinsically a rather coarse dish (which can be delicious if made properly) and coq au riesling or coq au vin jaune are much more refined.

I’ve had rooster meat come into my hands in the past, but I never managed to come up with an interesting coq au vin with it. I prefer to use a large, farm-raised, strong-boned chicken if I can get one, thus the alchemy of lengthy cooking can be achieved while the meat in itself will be edible. Here’s a tip: if I can obtain a large pintade (guinea-fowl), slightly firmer than chicken, that’s excellent for coq au vin, even though it’s no longer coq at all.

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I see what « exotic fowl and animal farm » you’re referring to, it’s my favorite French restaurant in France. Actually I’m going there in a couple of weeks. « Exotic » reminds me of the time when I was trying to get pictures of their Sologne sheep in a field where the animals were walking back one step for every step forward I made, and suddenly an emu appeared in the field, wings spread wide, and made a perfect photo-bombing.
Compared with the roasted chickens they serve there, I’m not surprised that their coq au vin should appear as boring.

Glad you decided to venture back on the boards & post here. Always great to hear your voice, whatever you decide to name yourself.

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Our countries have very separate histories. France is surrounded by many European nations and established its identity hundreds of years ago. The United States is a country of immigrants and the hyphenated label originated (IMO) from the wish to describe where people were from. Thus, the Irish-American, the Italian-American, the Polish-American, etc. Most of that has clearly changed. The term “Afro-American” is in my view quite offensive. I don’t hear it anywhere. I also never hear “Asian-American”, although here in San Francisco I will hear “an Asian neighborhood” or an “Asian family”. It’s not meant pejoratively, but most of us try to be alert to the underlying desire of everyone to be respected, so these descriptions do change. As they seem to in France from what I have read in the French newspapers over the years. In general, the problem isn’t in “our set”, but what we would like to see in “all sets”.

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Hear, hear!

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Sadly, with all the ’ must eat ’ restaurants we have identified and being proposed to us, our itinerary simple does not have space to accommodate all?!..besides Bistro, there are still pure seafood ( oysters & fish ), wood-fire/charcoal grill French beef, Michelin star restaurants, cheap eats, out-of-town places…etc we would like to try. Every single choice will occupy a slot!

Anyways, regarding the term ’ Tourist trap ’ used to describe L’Ami Jean. Exactly, what does it mean? Being over charged? Bad service? Tasting menu offerings different between local vs Tourist?! I saw on Youtube a 'Blue Feet ’ chicken dish being charged 120 Euro albeit yummy tasting! Is this a typical example?

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