If this is the route you will take, and you want clad, I suggest you look at All-Clad G3.
Or Tramontina Tri-Ply for a fraction of the price (and better handles).
For the fastest response that the OP wants, I wouldn’t recommend any other clad.
That Tamontina is a solid choice for good clad though.
Here is a very good comparison…
It’s a comparison, but not one involving the All-Clad G3.
My comments are directed at the OP’s particular situation and wants: (1) using thick copper sheets atop gas burners for even heat; (2) getting the utmost downward response when pans are taken off the sheet; and (3) very light cookware. I don’t consider either D3 or the Tramontina triply to fit those parameters well.
the paper / flour “burn” test is abhorrently abysmal.
it only indicates what happens in a cold pan.
so, when was the last instruction issued to ‘do not pre-heat your pan’?
heat transfer is controlled by “delta T” - the temp difference from warm point A to cold point B.
when a pan is pre-heated, all the pretty burn/scorch marks are irrelevant because the rate of heat movement is not the same as ‘from cold on a hot burner’ - not even close to the same…
same with ‘cast iron holds heat better’ - actually, measured by material coefficients, aluminum holds heat twice as ‘better’ than cast iron.
but , , , ooops! , , , the coefficient is based on mass
an aluminum fry pan the same size of a cast iron fry pan , , , has seriously less mass . . . and hence “holds” heat seriously less.
Thanks for the advice! Are you suggesting the G5, i.e. the graphite All Clad models?
Thanks for the response! Why would a heat diffuser be bad for searing, supposing it’s appropriately sized for the pan? Wouldn’t it help with searing by adding more thermal mass and prevent a thermal crash when you add your food?
I’ve read a lot of cast iron folks use diffusers to get even heating and a good sear.
Only if you must have clad.
For folks wondering, according to Williams and Sonoma, the weights of the All-Clad 10.5" fry pans are:
- D3: 3 lbs
- Copper core (10", not 10.5"): 4 lbs
- G5: 2 lbs 3 oz
And the thinnest copper pans I could find are the Mauviel 1.5 mm M’150 line. Weights seem slightly higher than the g5 line.
- 8" Fry Pan: 8" diam.,1 1/2" high; 1 lb. 11 oz.
- 10" Fry Pan: 10 1/4" diam.,1 1/2" high; 2 lb. 12 oz.
- 11 3/4" Fry Pan: 11 3/4" diam., 1 3/4" high; 3 lb. 8 oz.
Haven’t looked at aluminum pans yet.
diffuser plates add a layer between the heat source and the pan.
that slows things down…
diffuser plates add a layer between the heat source and the pan.
that slows things down…
I’d agree slowing things down would be an issue for responsiveness, but for searing isn’t the additional layers and thermal mass an advantage for holding the temperature constant (provider the burner is strong enough to put back in the heat the food absorbs)?
my experience is the pan on a plate diffuser do not reach the same temps as (in my case) over a natural gas burner.
. . . . lack issues getting a good sear . . . never tried it.
Yeah, I’m hypothesizing the lack of a clean bonded interface between the diffuser and pot might lead to heat transfer inefficiencies… Will test and let you know!
Tom is right in the sense that your diffusers will moderate a heat setting. However, a normal home gas stove has plenty of headroom for all but wok work. Just boost the setting a notch. What are you cooking at 10/10 now?
Properly preheated, the diffusers will act like a French Placque–it’s pretty fast response.
Only if you must have clad.
I guess not. Two questions:
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I found from other posts that you have some experience (I think) with the G5 pans. Do they perform better than the D3? I think the weights I found on the WS page are wrong and the D3/G5 lines are generally the same weight?
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If I don’t do clad, what straight gauge aluminum or copper pans would you recommend? The Mauviel 150s seem to be the lightest copper I can find. I haven’t cooked with straight gauge aluminum before and am a little worried about the problems I’ve read regarding acidity, though they seem cheap enough to take a gamble… but I don’t know which line or brand to start with.
Thanks again!
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I don’t think so. But G5 is lighter. If you want to compare, the 8.5" G5 skillet weighs 672g. G5 is strange because (a) the graphite is only in the base (along with some aluminum), and (b) the graphite conducts heat better laterally than vertically.
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My previous advice was based on your stated preference (now abandoned?) for ultimate response based on using sheet copper to even the heat under any pan. If that’s no longer the case, then I recommend buying the thickest copper you can afford. 3mm is close to ideal for things other than steaming and boiling. For trying straight gauge aluminum, you might look at the Point Two Five line from Allegacy Eagleware, or the Ballarini lines that run to 5mm thick.
If you’re back to where you started (using diffusers), then the Mauviel isn’t a bad choice. But there are all sorts of other makers and lines, e.g., ODI, Spring, etc. You might search for “table service grade” copper.
- I don’t think so. But G5 is lighter. If you want to compare, the 8.5" G5 skillet weighs 672g. G5 is strange because (a) the graphite is only in the base (along with some aluminum), and (b) the graphite conducts heat better laterally than vertically.
You know what, I might just buy a G5 and D3 some delta T testing. And then resell one. Mu intuition is telling me the graphite is a gimmick and not thick enough to meaningfully transfer large amounts of heat laterally.
My previous advice was based on your stated preference (now abandoned?) for ultimate response based on using sheet copper to even the heat under any pan.
Mulling it over the last couple weeks, my preferences have changed somewhat based on what I’ve learned from discussions with you and others on this forum. (1) Downward responsiveness can be worked around by using another copper/aluminum diffuser plate as a heat sink when I need to bring the temp down fast and (2) upward responsiveness isn’t all that important (i.e. in what scenarios do you need to actually increase temp super fast? I don’t work in a professional kitchen, so if my cooking times slow down 10% or w/e that’s not a big deal).
So, basically, I have one use case left for a light plan and that’s flip sauteeing. Which isn’t strictly necessary but it’s fun to do once in a while.
For everything else, I’m gonna slowly do a mix of Demeyere, Fissler, Falk CC, and maybe eventually a couple of Duparquet or Mazzetti 3+ mm silver-lined copper pieces if I still have gas. Might get a Lagofusion Academia piece as well to check it out. Might also intentionally do some overlap, e.g. I’ll get a Fissler fry pan or roaster for when I want a really solid sear and a Falk CC fry pan for more responsiveness.
It may be gimmick-y, but graphite of this kind is a very, very conductive material, IIRC about 1300W/mK laterally. What may make this line gimmicky is that the pans may be too small to realize any discernable difference in terms of evenness. If you’re going to buy to compare A-B, I recommend you get the largest diameter test pieces possible. When I was working on the hyperconductivity project with greater effective conductivity, lateral transfer in a 10" diameter bottom was not a huge marginal gain. You would probably need an aerospace grade thermal imager to see any differences in evenness. Speed, maybe.
The more interesting question is whether G5 will ultimately debond. Viking tried the same thing and that line did. Maybe A-C skinned that cat, but you can see the deformed “dot” areas on the bottom of G5.
