Another nail in the coffin of food authenticity

Culture, Media, General
42

Or it would just be a typical Chinese stir-fry (i.e. vegetable, meat, etc.) which is about as authentic as one can get, I suppose.

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43

Yes, there is no such thing as a single authentic recipe. Any recipe that conforms to the definition of authentic is an authentic recipe.

44

For real?

45

He’s going to keep fighting you know, because he has a very powerful investment in the currency of “authenticity”. Why is not for me to say, no matter how much I suspect.

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46

Personal insults are not made more intelligent by putting words in quotes. Your previous insult. that I am looking to score points, is not made more cogent by following it with another insult.

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48

And authentic is defined by… who? exactly?

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49

There is a dictionary definition.

50

I’m not asking for a dictionary definition. I’m asking who’s in charge of declaring that THIS is the authentic version of X.

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51

I have already given my opinion that there is no such thing as THIS recipe (or any recipe not written in ALL CAPS) which is singular in authenticity nor is there any one person who determines it.

52

Which make authenticity akin to perpetual motion. We know what it is; it just doesn’t exist.

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53

A perpetual motion machine does not exist, but I believe that the Earth is in perpetual motion.

I believe there are parameters for certain cuisines and dishes. I gave the example of Nissarde cuisine, which I guess for some reason you discount. I believe the same is true for bouillabaisse.

This inhibits others who live in the area of Marseille, for example, of cooking up ‘whatever’ and calling it bouillabaisse. I understand why, because pretty soon people are eating all kinds of pretenders and wondering what’s so special about it.

I am supportive of the idea to preserve things that are special in that way. If not, they will disappear.

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54

On the one hand “where can I get authentic Sichuan food?” is a question and probably has a perfectly reasonable answer. “At Szechuan Spicy House on Fruitridge.” is one such answer.

On the other, the question might be better phrased “where can I get classic Sichuan food?” or maybe “where can I get really tasty Sichuan food?” since those descriptors don’t have the additional implication of “authentic”, and the answers would probably be the same.

“Authentic” only matters when faced an imitation that is somehow ‘less than’ the original. My Rush concert tshirt from 1983 is “authentic.” I bought it at the concert from a licensed vendor. The same shirt printed in 2022 and sold at Hot Topic is not “authentic”, in that it’s not an ACTUAL concert tshirt printed exclusively for and sold exclusively at those concerts. If I collected old concert tshirts, that would matter a lot to me.

Neither shirt is ‘inauthentic’ as a shirt. They both do the same job of curing nudity immediately upon proper usage.

Is carbonara “authentic?” In the sense that it’s a dish that can be made to showcase particular ingredients of Italian origin, sure. It’s authentically Italian. But it’s also not NOT carbonara if you add garlic, or use bacon or pancetta or ham and peas or AMERICAN parmesean cheese or a zillion other things.

Authenticity only counts in arguments. I’m not walking out of the restaurant if there’s cream in my alfredo sauce so long as it tastes good.

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55

And carbonara came to be bc of American soldiers in Italy…

56

I am always amused when folks reject the word authentic then propose tasty or good… as if those words have any sort of specificity or are not obvious. Are people continually on the lookout for bad or tasteless food?

Actually, I have two brothers who are, but that’s another story…

If someone asks me for authentic Sichuan I will direct them accordingly, as best as I know how. In the case of where I live, I will give them specific recs about what to order, not a blanket recommendation. If I don’t think there’s a viable option, then I will tell them that also.

I would not recommend food that I don’t think is good. In fact, I don’t recommend food unless I think it’s wonderful.

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As I have said before, there is a lot of pride as well as monetary value attached to authenticity, as the many programs dedicated to it in Europe attest.

Better is a different sort of value judgement.

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Bingo. It’s not a useful way to evaluate food. But it may be a useful way to evaluate people who evaluate food.

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59

Again with the insults!

My goal here is to educate. Never heard of Nissarde cuisine before? Well now you know, and you know there is a committee of people who spend time worrying about its authenticity. Maybe some people on this board have never heard of Calissons d’Aix or Pruneaux d’Agen or Dragees de Verdun or Poulet de Bresse. Not only do these things exist, but again there are a lot of people who do think about the authenticity of the preparation. Whether an ingredient or a prepared dish or a cuisine.

You can have whatever opinion you want about these products/ recipes, and there is no guarantee you will like them. But actual monetary value is associated with their authenticity because many people appreciate them.

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60

I disagree that the term “authentic” is meaningless. I would define the term “authentic” as shorthand for “as it is prepared in its place of origin.” I know that when I am say looking for an “authentic” mapo tofu - I’m looking for a mapo tofu as it would be made in say Chengdu. If I’m looking for an “authentic” Chicago deep dish pizza, I’m seeking such a pizza as it would be prepared in or around Chicago.

It is also of course true, as others have noted in this thread, that authenticity does not imply deliciousness (nor vice versa). For example I’ve had several versions of mapo tofu locally that were delicious, but not “authentic” in their preparation from what I understand. And there are surely many examples of “authentic” renditions of dishes that are not very good. Lets separate authenticity from deliciousness. But the notion of “authentic” is not meaningless.

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61

Ma Po Tofu is a good example because a lot of places will throw it on the menu even if it’s not a Sichuan restaurant. So they simply don’t have key ingredients, especially Sichuan peppercorns.

In addition most Chinese carry-outs will list Szechuan or Hunan on the menu even if these dishes bear little resemblance to any actual dishes from those provinces. In Chinese-American nomenclature, they have more to do with the way they cut the vegetables than anything to do with ingredients.