I may have asked about this here before, but I can’t find the thread. Maybe it was on Chowhound.
Anyway this discussion is making me curious about one of my knives above, which a friend brought back from a trip. I’m pretty sure it was to Japan, but it was many years ago. He gave it to my husband and I didn’t get to ask questions.
It’s special to me regardless, but if anyone can tell me more about it I would appreciate it. I tried to sharpen it once, and vent the tip by pressing to hard on the stone and haven’t tried again. I’m going to send the Shuns to Shun for sharpening ( thanks for reminding me of that option @drrayeye ), but I m not sure who else to trust.
Last time I asked, members said the stamp was from a place they make a lot of knives, but I don’t remember comments about cladding.
My Japanese collaborator uses his dual core santoku as his main knife. It sort of is his “dream” knife.
We tried his santoku out together on various kitchen tasks compared to really high Rockwell knives I already own and agreed that it performed at least as well and felt really good–but this is knife is already well known, so no surprise.
I don’t have a lot of experience using true damascus kitchen knives. However, the damascus folders I’ve used have been superior.
Personally, I think quite a bit about the cored knives is fictional. It makes sense for swords, of course, and camp, field and survival blades, but kitchen knives don’t take the torsional and ballistic stresses of those. And if you consider the tests to qualify as a master bladesmith, those are all monolithic blades that are plenty strong, flexible and hold a fine edge.
Finally, consider the photos already posted in this thread. Look at the flats and see where the core steel ends and the cladding begins. It’s popular to drone on about how the “soft”, flexible cladding “supports” the “hard” core (supposedly to prevent chipping out), but is this really true? When the core is exposed a 1/4" up the flats, there’s really nothing supporting the edge. If the droning were true, these clad knives would throw very large chips.
Yeah, I think what I wanted to say is that … a lot of these hammered and dasmascus patterns were once considered as “side effect”. They were things to be removed. Back then: Who would want a knife with ugly hammered marks? People would polished out these things before selling the knives (or cookware). Now, people would intentionally add these things back into a perfectly smooth knife or cookware.
I just found this photo. You can tell this was a perfectly smooth stamped wok, and then they intentionally pound/hammered the woks at evenly space for looks.
The current interest in damascus is a reflection of the strategy Japanese knifesmiths at all levels have taken to get harder Rockwell steel knives into the commercial and home kitchens outside of Japan.
The cladding construction is primarily protective–and there are many ways to do it–but some kind of damascus layering is a dead giveaway of the intent. A user facing this reality needs to also consider push cutting as an alternative to European rock chopping.
It’s a basic tool of cultural fusion.
To see how it started here in the States, you might want to click on the link I provided for Kobuta above that describes the role of Bob Kramer in promoting cultural fusion.
Won’t they provide much more joy and satisfaction when you see your own hand cutting with these beautiful and functional tools?
Use them until they need sharpening, then have them sharpened. That’s the life they were meant to lead. And you’ll get infinitely more pleasure out of owning them than when they’re hidden in boxes.
I dont own any damascus knives. I certainly wont buy a knife because it’s damascus clad, and looks nice. Real damascus knives cost a premium over a single steel knife, and I dont know that it really adds to anything. I tend to buy knives according to the steel used, or the maker. Like Chem, I am more fond of the kurouchi finish…hence my love for Takeda knives. I have recently purchased some knives made by Kyohei Shindo that I really like as well. I agree about how useless it is to have a knife that you dont use or carry. For the last 20 years I have carried a left handed Emerson CQC6 pocket knife. Ernie Emerson hasn’t taken orders for about 20 years, and you certainly cant find many dedicated lefties. A knife in a padded case is useless. A knife is a tool, and most makers make those tools to be used.
That’s what you suggested when I was reluctant to use my birchwood, and I’ve made it a point to use it whenever it is appropriate. But it remains part of my comparison group of knives that Dr. H and I use to review new and exciting knives like the true damsacus (dual core) posted in the OP. I maintain it to be at least as sharp as when I bought it, and also make sure that it is not misused.
Well, wabi, the only production true damascus that exists comes from the Shun dual core, and others by Shun using that same approach.
The most recent is the Hikari series ( see Shrinkrap above) and an Engetsu Limited Edition just released.
The comparison knife Dr. H and I are trying to understand is also posted in the OP. I’ve got another friend translating some Chinese for us to better understand what they’ve done.
Damascus effects are usually tied to high Rockwell steel, and the layered “damascus” surrounding the core is often far more than window dressing.
I’ve recently been snooping at some Shun Fuji chef knives that have 40 layered pairs on each side (one of them nickel)–and a real bumpy finish over sg-2 (R-2)
core steel. I once cut carrots with a small prep version–but didn’t appreciate it then.
If I get a chance, I might steal one for my birthday present in May . . .
Hi wabi, have you run into Ken Onion at any events in Hawaii? I’ve got two of his knives that have a great treatment to the steel that is better than damascus, IMO.
They are made with American tool steels–like some of Ken’s folding knives–and are very hard. The surface of one is called “rain,” and the other one is called “sky.”
Two American knives by one of your fellow Hawaiians.
I am friends with several of the Hawaii knife makers. I have met Ken Onion, but I dont know him well. Ken Park, who works in his shop, and has his own line of knives is a friend of mine. One of my close friends is another Hawaii knife maker, Tom Mayo, who makes mostly folders. Tom was one of the pioneers to use Talonite, Stellite and 6k for blades, with Titanium hardware for absolute corrosion resistance for the Hawaiian salt water environment. I spoke with Stan Fujisaka many times, he was a wonderful gentleman and influenced a lot of Hawaii knife makers, and taught Les George who is now based on the US mainland. Les is a good friend as well. Carl Zakabi, and Scot Matsuoka are also dear friends of mine. Carl just makes knives as a part time hobby. Scot was taught by Ken Onion, and makes a very nice folder. I dont own an Onion custom knife, but many that he designed. I own and carry knives by all of these guys because they are my friends. Tom Mayo and I are not only good friends, but he is also one of the great knife makers, as is Bob Terzuola and Ernie Emerson who dont think twice when it comes to making left handed knives.
