No doubt dining out would be even cheaper if we didn’t imbibe. Beverages are often 50% of our bill 
5 Likes
Yes, all of it. Re-read to make sure I didn’t miss anything.
So you should appreciate the impact of exchange rates then. Can you please then answer my question of what you mean by saying the euro is stronger than the dollar?
I am quite good at math. I analyze numbers, all sorts of data about markets, countries, businesses, relative performance as my day job. I then make decisions to commit capital based on that analysis. I have a pretty good idea about what drives differences in prices and what makes them change.
On a very macro level, there’s a straightforward answer to your question. America is a wealthier country than Germany. Wealthier than most of the EU. That discrepancy is only likely to continue for the foreseeable future due to a variety of reasons.
Here’s a chart of median income by country from Wikipedia.
As a rough rule, stuff costs more in wealthier countries. There are always exceptions but that doesn’t negate the overall effect. It why vacations in Mexico are so cheap for Americans and all my friends in London used to go to Greece for vacations before the euro was adopted.
The CURRENT exchange rate - as in this very moment in time is favorable to the Euro. I’m not sure what else to say here, since you are clearly the specialist in all things money & it’s easy to look up.
Median income might be another factor for restaurant pricing, however.
It would appear that there are several factors playing into the question at hand, as with so many things, and I appreciate what people had to say.
This will be my last post on the matter. The euro is off a recent historic low so it’s higher than it was earlier in 2022 but still weak in comparison to the past. In the vein of a picture is worth how ever many words a chart since the euro launch in 1999.
I added 90 and 200 day moving averages to show the trend. Recent strength offsetting the earlier decline but still only just getting back to the level when QE was started.
Bye
If I Googled correctly, 29 euros is about $31. Our local steakhouse (10 miles west of Boston) charges $38 for its steak fries (8 oz of flank steak, fries, and salad). If you want filet (8 oz, no sides), it is $48. So, your math makes sense to me!
5 Likes
Fascinating stuff, for sure.
I have always thought it was because Germans are less likely to pay for crappy food than Canadians or Americans, at all. I think Germans tend to take their jobs more seriously and take pride in their work, which you see in upscale kitchens in Canada, but isn’t that common in greasy spoon level restaurants.
I’ve always been amazed by how good the coffee and cake is at the truckstops/ reststops in Germany and Austria. Good food at Italian, Greek and Turkish rest stops, too.
In Canada, the choice at highway rest stops is usually Popeye’s, Burger King, Tim Hortons or Starbucks.
3 Likes
I know it’s really tempting to ascribe national characteristics, and they can definitely be there, but those around taste make me antsy. I’ve had my share of bad food in these nations so often praised here. I think honestly, one of the bigger issues is that of capitalism, and the growing demands of work and the spread of fast/convenience foods that are mass produced as being a small operator is increasingly untenable.
I suppose that’s also why the “take pride in one’s work” also gives me chills. I think there are people invested in showcasing their foods, but yeah, I’ve had some not so thrilling convenience items in Germany. Some good ones, but some meh. Same for Belgium. Same for France. Class, location, leisure, etc, all figure in.
That said, some people just know how to make a cake. 
2 Likes
Sorry to offend.
When I talk about taking pride in their work, I realize I am stereotyping.
A lot of kitchen staff in Canada are working in kitchens because the work is available, not because they like working in kitchens or with food. It shows, when someone hasn’t picked the slimy lettuce out of the pre-bagged lettuce they’ve served in a restaurant salad, or when cherry tomato that I would have composted is on the plate.
That sort of sloppiness I’ve encountered in the States and in the UK, but I haven’t seen it in Japan or continental Europe. I haven’t spent enough time elsewhere to compare it to other continents.
I haven’t had that experience in restaurants during many trips to Germany, Austria, Greece, Italy.
This is anecdotal, of course.
I have had very disappointing, sloppy meals not made with care in France and in the UK.
I’ve had meals I haven’t liked in Italy, but the ingredients or presentation haven’t been half-assed.
In France, I’ve experienced some meals that were pretty bad, and I’ve usually felt that’s because I ended up at a tourist trap, that a place with more locals would know to avoid that restaurant.
I know which streets or neighbourhoods to avoid in Toronto or Montréal, or NYC, (and some other cities I have frequented in Canada, USA and UK) where the effort will not be made in the kitchen and the where the focus is on taking money from restaurant goers once, rather than creating a repeat customer.
Do I complain at these restaurants where people don’t do their jobs at what I consider a satisfactory level, at the level where I might think they don’t take pride in their work? No.
Why don’t I complain, you might wonder?
I have complained in the past. In NYC, over 26 years ago now, when a server got my order wrong. He accused me of lying when I made the correction. I had wanted chicken crêpes, not sugar crêpes.
When I received my order, it looked odd, not plated nicely. I had been waiting for food for a long time at that point, it was a brunch meal and I was famished, so I ate the crêpes. I became very sick later. I am pretty sure the server had spit or worse into the food because I made his job difficult that day by asking for what I had ordered, which he had misunderstood.
There is a very different education system in Germany,
Switzerland and Japan (and elsewhere), and I think this has an impact on how people work, whether they like their work, and whether they are acting like professionals at work.
There’s also a power imbalance when one tries to complain in a second or 3rd language. I can’t even imagine trying to let a server know that something was wrong with a meal , or that it was mediocre in France.
I can’t help but notice the batting average when I travel.
In the UK, I like most of my meals and most of the food I order. I would say 1 out 10 meals is a 6/10, and most meals are much better than that.
In France, in the rural parts and small towns, I’ve had good experiences with the food and service. On the tourist track, near the tourist sites, it has been as low as 1 out of every 2 meals being a 6/10 or worse. I have had awful meals in Paris and in Nice.
In the rest of continental Europe outside France, I’ve rarely had a meal I would say is less than 6/10. One or 2 mediocre meals in Rome at tourist class restaurants on the tourist path, but the food was still better than most other places.
I didn’t have one disappointment in Japan, over a 1 week stay. I didn’t have any disappointments in Portugal, either…
2 Likes
Not at all necessarily so in regard to rural France. it is very easy to eat badly in very small towns. I’ve been to places in the northern departments that simply would not stay in business if they were in the UK. Of course, you also come across those great restaurants that you hope to find in France.
2 Likes
I know we all will have different experiences, and it is possible to eat poorly in many countries. I’ve probably been luckier than most in rural England, and perhaps I’ve been unluckier than most in France.
Perhaps, I need to lower my expectations in France.
Most great meals I’ve had in France have been outside Paris. It’s also a timing and circumstances issue, in that I often visit Paris in July or August. I also don’t tend to spend big bucks to dine out. I’ve rarely spent more than 40 Euros on a meal anywhere in Europe.
I’ve visited France 6 times. Paris 5 times, over 30 years, and not recently. I am sure I would have a better batting average if I knew it better.
2 Likes
I agree about the level of dining excellence in Japan. Even fast food places like Yoshinoya and Matsuya plate (bowl?) very good meals and do so at nice price. And the price of nicer cafes has not been nearly as high as I expected. Plus the hotels have been reasonable and very pleasant. I stay at the Intergate Kyobashi for $75 a night and it is a small room but very comfortable and the staff are great. So the “Tokyo is expensive” story does not seem to be true for my comfort level.
London, now, that was expensive…
My one mediocre to bad dining experience in Tokyo was at a “highly rated” Sushi place near the old Tokyo Fish Market. Even there it may have been simply rated higher by tourists like myself who did not know better.
I used to stop off at Tokyo on my DC to Bangkok flights for a night or two just to make the flight more tolerable. But lately I have been staying in Tokyo for 3 or 4 days mostly for the food. Next time I am going to get out of Tokyo and explore some of the smaller cities. Perhaps a venture into the country? Surely not! LOL!
4 Likes
We’ve had a family lunch today and, as often, the conversation got round to food. We chatted about “best meals” and Mrs H & I both rated one lunch in France as right up the list. It’s a place in Calais - the main ferry port between the UK & France. Situated on the top floor of an apartment block overlooking the port. We had a starter of an “assiette de fruits de mer” which had seafood so fresh it was almost still wriggling. More fish for a main course. Cheese from the region and “Le Calais” for dessert. The latter is an almond cake, with a coffee butter cream, topped with a coffee flavoured glaze, studded with almonds. It was just a fab meal.
But the problem with the small towns and villages is that you have to rely on what will be a tiny number of Tripadvisor reviews or just take pot luck. Often there may only be a single restaurant in the village or only two or three in small town. Easy to pick a bad one.
3 Likes
One has to know where to go. I can’t remember the last time I went out to eat and was served frozen convenience foods in Berlin.
Whereas I’ve seen far too many Sysco trucks parked behind restaurants in the US, and certainly not just chains.
2 Likes
No offence! Just reflecting on the distinctions and where or to what one might attribute those differences.
After all, the White People Food phenomenon in Chinese social media is very much built around issues with the care around meals (or rather, do you eat cold food that’s convenient versus making a hot meal and taking time with it?).
1 Like
Fair play. Not thinking about that but not in the US enough to clock frozen food delivery.
That said, one of my favourite conveniences is the French frozen food chain, Picard.
But one has to know where to go: Isn’t that always the case? And aren’t there always times when one is in a part of town where you’ll take a chance?
Yes, that is the eternal dilemma - especially for those of us (the majority, perhaps) who don’t have unlimited financial means…i.e. can spend $5,000 on dining out per month without blinking an eye 
I don’t generally like to take chances and therefore do my research, or have a good look at a menu and, ideally, any food that’s being served to other folks at a restaurant unfamiliar to me
I would say about at least 95% of all restaurants source some product from Sysco, either food products or equipment (e.g. kitchenware, supplies, etc.). And those that don’t, source their products from the likes of US Foods.
So having a Sysco truck outside a restaurant is largely irrelevant as to whether a restaurant is serving “frozen convenience” foods.
It’s just a sign that a restaurant is, well, in the food hospitality business.
I mean even the fanciest of fancy restaurants need to source their table salt and sugar from somewhere. And it would be professional suicide to buy basics like salt and sugar from, say, Zabars or Eataly.
6 Likes
I can attest to this.
Large Distributors are used by many Restaurants for Stuffs other than Food.
2 Likes
Thanks for enlightening me. I don’t own any restaurants like you do, so I wouldn’t know. I had just assumed Sysco is mostly in the business of supplying places that serve the same, indistinguishable prepared foods like mashed potatoes, etc. Chains, mostly.
2 Likes
