I think the rule of thumb in the UK is traditionally based on thirds, generally speaking. One third of menu price accounted for by ingredients; one third by staff wages and one third for general overheads and owner’s profit.
tacking on the the end - not a specific post . . . .
we have splurged on star-rated eateries in any number of cities/locales.
the memorables are
Delmonico - NOLA
CraftSteak - LV - stellar; medium $, avoid the wine parings.
JoelRobuchon_LV - stellar, if you’ve got the coin, it’s a do not miss.
L-Atelier - LV - next door to JoelRobuchon - methinks same kitchen as the restaurant, but much less $
LeCirque - LV - not really, outworn it’s stars… good but not worth the $
GuySavoy - LV -, outworn it’s stars… good but not worth the $
CIA- American Bounty - classic American - no stars, good food, student run - worth a detour, not a special trip.
also good:
Emeril Fish House - LV
the only utter disappointment - nay . . . disaster . . . was a “new” one star place in D.C - it was nothing more than a college dive bar. sent a email to Michelin explaining all the ways the place failed to make a star. got a nice canned reply, it’s still on their one star list.
Sure, roughly. In my experience in the US, 33% food cost is on the high side, and labor takes more of its share. Here in Seattle we have a high minimum wage and very little tip credit ($15.75/hr non-tipped or $13.50 for tipped employees). Labor cost is so huge, chefs I know are designing their menus with saving labor as the highest priority. I’d imagine labor costs are even higher in places with less tipping custom and live-able salaries for FOH. And fine dining has way more labor - all those perfect knife cuts and twee garnishes, the flock of servers swooping simultaneously to deliver the course.
So you’re lucky if you have 30% left for ‘general overheads and owner’s profit’. General overhead includes rent, utilities, liability insurance, linen cleaning, menu printing, maintenance, supplies including PPE and gloves that now cost 3x what they used to, theft & breakage, advertising, flowers … profit is going to be in the single digits.
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Ah, the ways of Michelin are indeed difficult to follow. Thankfully, it’s only been on rare occasions when I’ve been to a starred place and thought it was completely unworthy. But I have been to several 1* places and OK I can understand why that is star worthy - but I’ve been able to think of a number of other places that cook at the same level, or higher, and have no star awarded. At times unfathomable.
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The truth will set you free. It is up to the reader to determine if a review is credible.
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I guess I’m of the view that a restaurant can charge what it wants and then its up to potential customers to decide if they will pay. £300 may sound like a lot but it depends on what you get. Tell me its fried whiting and I will agree that its ridiculous. If its for a meal that may start with caviar or foie gras, maybe not. For some, paying more than $20 for any dish is crazy. I’m not an absolutist. I have spent into 4 figures for dinner for two and been thrilled with the meal and been outraged at a $50 tab for pizza so who am I to judge?
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I can appreciate a high end restaurant that tries to offer a unique experience, as well as a superb and memorable meal that is meant to be a special occasion place, or that otherwise caters to those to whom money is no object (I am salt not in that position).
I’ve had a lot of memorable meals that I would return to for those special occasions, that I know others have blasted as being overpriced and unworthy (though acknowledging the good food, if not on par with value). My top spend so far is any $300/$325 per person, without wine for me (don’t drink, but I will usually get a non alcoholic drink).
On a trip to Japan, I inquired about going to a crazy high end kaiseki place that I was told could range from $400-500pp or so, and I was ok with that. I just have to know what that experience is like. I’m not sure I would go above $500pp though. Never got to try it, as most of those places are booked far in advance. I’m still curious and would like to give it a try one day, but I think that would truly be a once in a lifetime experience no matter how wonderful it ends up being.
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As others have said, it’s entirely subjective and relative.
We’ve had that price point (and higher) for tasting menus in the US for a while.
To me, it really depends on what the menu is and why I want to go to the place.
For example, The French Laundry is a schlepp. But that’s part of it - and you can plan a weekend in wine country around a reservation. Per Se on the other hand, with a largely similar menu but located in NYC - I don’t know.
Eleven Madison Park is similarly expensive - but was not worth it to me at all: not the food, nor the “experience” - which was not meaningfully different than other high end NYC dining. But people are obsessed with it.
I imagine the “destination” aspect of El Bulli was part of the experience, as it is for TFL in Napa valley, and for Blue Hills at Stone Barn outside NYC. Perhaps that holds true for this rural Welsh place for its target audience.
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methinks only the top tier of Michelin are ‘properly’ rated - the lower end is totally hit&miss.
as to ‘other places’ outshining 1-2 stars, absolutely! one wonders why they are not ranked, or even mentioned. I suppose there’s just more places than reviewers…?
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There’s a place in my city where I’d take the view that, for the last five years, it has been completely star worthy yet is consistently neglected (although it is listed in the Michelin book). It’s rated by the UK’s Good Food Guide (which is generally our most reliable restaurant guide) as its 11th best in the whole country. Yes, it probably really is that good. I can only assume that somehow the chef has pissed off the Michelin inspectors - it cannot be a genuine “not good off for a star” decision.
I have heard stories about chefs throwing out suspected Michelin inspectors. Some owners don’t want to be listed in a Michelin guide.
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I don’t know in US. In France, many middle or high end places employ a great number of “stagiaires”, translated as persons doing apprenticeship and internship, or exploited labour. While some are still studying, a great many of them have graduated and have worked on and off for several years. They are paid like 1/4 or 1/3 of the minimum salary.
If I remember correctly, food costs around 28 - 35% of the total cost of a menu.
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Me too, naf. But this really wouldnt be one of them.
Certainly also the case in the UK, naf. Stages work both ways. The restaurant gets the benefit of cheap labour. The person doing the stage gets the experience of working at a high end restaurant and, of course, gets to add that to her/his CV. I recall one now closed 1* place in Belgium where almost the entire kitchen team were stagers - they came from all over Europe, so the only way to make that work was for the language of the kitchen to be English (which was everyone’s first or second language).
Very true. I’ve read for places like the defunct El Bulli, many chefs considered lucky and were happy to have been accepted as a stager. I was not sure, I have the impression that they were not paid.
I also have the impression that the El Bulli stagers (and many other places) were not paid. They’d work several days at the restaurant but then work other days of the week somewhere else where they could earn enough money to live on.
Always the issue with what is fundamentally a subjective assessment. Personalities, especially prickly ones, show up in the results.
HOUSE RICOTTA
house focaccia | clover honey | radish | fennel pollen | pea tendrils | olive oil
Maybe Minnesota ought to give money to Michelin so they’d visit here. 
When did fifteen dollar hamburgers become a normal price? 
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