It did indeed “cast a shadow.” I was especially disappointed to see this from Petrelle. And I may follow up with the restaurants — both of them. If I do, and if I get responses, I’ll report here.
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We have all learned, sometimes from experience , that in Frsnce the customer is not always right.
However, I found an anecdote from Dorie Greenspan particularly insightful. She told of visiting a well regarded cheese shop, engaging staff in making choices for a special meal. On her next visit to the shop, she was asked how she had enjoyed her selection. Pausing for a moment, she gave an honest appraisal, in some instances mentioning disappointment. On her NEXT visit, a staff person called from the back room to attend her, special notice given her request. She was recognized as a knowledgeable client whose opinion was worth attention,
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Hi Carole, I just looked back at my hard copy of both bills. The written prompt I saw at both places shows up on neither final bill. I’m now thinking that at one place, the prompt may have been on an initial hard copy bill that was ultimately not left with us. And I’m also having a recollection that in at least one of these two instances the prompt may have been presented electronically, on an enhanced screen of a portable credit card reader. (So much for the certainty/ reliability of eyewitness testimony, even soon after the event!) But in both instances, we certainly received some form written prompt, and indeed, I immediately commented both times to Mo – and we both expressed surprise and some disappointment.
In the meantime, we’ll be curious to see what happens to you this Friday at Petrelle – and in that regard I’ll hold off emailing Petrelle about this issue until after you dine there on Friday.
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Jake, I have mentioned having received such a prompt at now defunct Tondo, and, yes, it was on the initial statement provisionaire, but not on the final bill.
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Possibly. I see that in the UK fairly regularly in restaurants which don’t have a service charge and the machine will ask “do you want to add a tip”, so the technology is there.
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If it is the English language credit card software triggered by American bank card, perhaps not the restaurant’s fault (or choice)? Doesn’t make sense that tip request would have been on one “hard copy” but not another, right? They would have to be bending themselves into a pretzel to produce that kind of paperwork.
I agree that it’s deceptive when a restaurant asks in whatever way for a tip in Paris, as though the service is not included (e.g. please see my diatribe on treatment at the then-recently starred Nicholas Flamel: Beware Nicholas Flamel--Paris) .
Still, I am an American, alors, and I tend to tip well for good/excellent service no matter what side of the “pond” I am on. I figure that no matter how much the waitstaff salaries are in Paris (the answer to this question I have never quite understood), I cannot imagine that they are so high that tips on top of “service” fee would be out of line. And the service in most of the restaurants I go to in Paris really is quite wonderful. Also, since I often dine alone (and can only therefore be eating and paying for one meal), the “service” percentage is necessarily low for that table (usually for two).
But I agree that it should be a choice and not deceptive!
Re: “If it is the English language credit card software triggered by American bank card, perhaps not the restaurant’s fault (or choice)?”
We used the same credit card approximately 30 times for lunches and dinners on this recent trip, and approximately that many times again
most recently in July — all in Paris and in the countryside. And only twice did we get these tip prompts. So it appears that as a general matter, restaurants can and do exercise substantial control over the issue.
I suppose that it could depend on the precise system that each restaurant uses — and the defaults / options that it chooses to employ with regard to credit card transactions. But it does appear to me that some restaurants are indeed “choosing,” and not being forced, to do this.
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I use exclusively an American credit card in restaurants and do not recall ever seeing the tip prompt (but if there were one, I might not have noticed it, as only check the charges and the bottom line).
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I also have not noticed this as a standard, though I am always asking, as I pay with my Apple Pay, if I can add a tip, and I always can on the machine. Perhaps this has become a standard option (was all I was trying to say, sorry if badly), given how many people pay with their phones or watches? (I am guilty of the latter.) Unlike paying with an actual credit card, I do not have to sign a paper copy when I pay electronically. Often enough I do leave cash for tip, but often enough I add it to my bill electronically.
Also, it used to be (in the early days of electronic payments) that I would have to whisper my tip to the waiter/waitress to add to my bill, and then I would just pay that amount electronically, but that always felt a bit awkward. I do like the option of adding it myself, but can see how having that option might upset some people.
Hi Jake - yes, we’ll be carefully sleuthing the issue on Friday. R usually carefully tucks away the “Document provisoire” with all its itemization bc he knows I often refer to it to remind me of when and what we ate. But we often pay with out phone these days (and in San Francisco generally with my watch), so I’m not sure what final documentation we’ll receive. I think it’s just the little “Carte Bancaire” slip.
Sounds good — and I hope this mini drama (and extraordinarily “first world problem”) won’t impair your enjoyment of the lovely room — and, I want to emphasize again, the truly lovely and friendly service. In the meantime, looking forward to hearing your report!
We ran into this in two restaurants in Paris last month and I think one of them was Petrelle. We just ignored it assuming it was software and not the restaurant.
Last Spring in a lovely high end restaurant in Biot, the waiter actually asked if we wanted to leave a tip. I said that we were aware that service was included in the bill. The waiter then attempted to lecture us about why we should leave an additional tip. Needless to say, we did not although we have in the past left a little extra as a token for exceptional service.
I emailed the restaurant and received an apology. In this case it was a "rogue’ waiter. Unfortunately, this is going to be happening more and more. My answer will always be “je suis desole, mais service compris”.
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You only leave a pourboire for exceptional service?
I leave a pourboire for service that’s decent (6/10) and up.
I’m shocked you would ask the restaurant for an apology when you hadn’t lost any money.
You may be shocked; however, we were shocked to be “hustled” in a restaurant of this caliber. It left “a bad taste in our mouth”. I never asked for an apology. I wanted the restaurant to know what one of its employees was doing. An employee of a restaurant of this caliber should not be asking for tips.
We subscribe to and read the Times. We also make our own decisions.
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(post deleted by author)
Due respect, but the numbers in this link are obviously wrong. Well, at least some of them.
There is zero chance that the highest waiter salary is 25,000 Euros.
I’d also be quite surprised if there was anyone working full time as a waiter in France who earns only 500 Euros a month. Let alone in Paris, let alone in the kinds of restaurants we typically discuss on this board.
That said, while I now put zero faith in any of the numbers in that link, I must say I was quite surprised to “learn” that female waiters (waitresses) earn 25% more than male waiters in France… 
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(post deleted by author)
Just a few things.
Depending on the place, a full-time salary for a waiter should be somewhere in-between the SMIC (minimum legal salary), about € 1,400 or slightly more, and around 2,000 in normal conditions (I’m not speculating on the high-end restaurants, I have no idea how much FOH workers are paid there; I only know that there’s a persistent conflict between kitchen team and FOH team, the latter being generally much better paid than the former).
I hope everybody here has integrated the fact that in France the 15% service charge is mandatory, it’s the basis of the waiter’s salary, which is also mandatory, as it should be universally. It is by no means to be equated to a tip. Totally different. Tips are optional and extra. Therefore tipping shouldn’t be considered, as it is in the US, a way to remunerate the waiter as a replacement to a minimally decent salary from the owner of the place. Salary is taken care of. Tips are never mandatory. And they are given when you’re happy with the service (that goes from the waiter having simply done their job as they should to being extatically happy with the experience).
This should be evident to everyone here by now, but I’m not sure that’s quite clear yet.
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Thank you for writing this. This is how I treat tipping in France and elsewhere in Europe, too.
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Jake D, yes, please tell us about where you ate in Normandy and elsewhere.
I was beginning to wonder if my husband and I are the only people on HO with an interest in restaurants outside of Paris.
