Yep, Jack M is the godmother of cheap cooking in the UK. Her story is here:
I love that you brought them up since Jack Monroe has been making similar cases to those made in the OP’s link. Because they’re a poverty campaigner, the cooking tips are made with the awareness of the limits and privileges so many others ignore or dismiss.
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Yes, that’s why I thought it dovetailed so nicely - it’s not just a lack of money or skills, it’s a lack of time and equipment. One of the most enlightening articles I’ve read on (sort of) this topic, was a New York Times Magazine account of one homeless woman’s daily struggle to get her kids to school, herself to her job, and everyone fed and clean. It’s A LOT OF WORK to be poor.
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Can’t read the NYT article due to paywall. In the absence of that perspective I disagree with your statement. It is skills. As I’ve said before, it is a travesty that the US public education system has turned their back on life skills (home ec and shop). Given skills “time” is just an excuse. Given skills “equipment” is almost always an excuse.
I’ve been poor. Long days at work and limited time for shopping and still managed to eat at home. I call those my rice and mustard years. Did a Crock-Pot help? You bet. When I could afford a bit of sausage that made red beans and rice easier. Without, well you manage in a pot, no sausage, and eat rice and beans.
Executive Chef Bernie Meehan of the Cosmos Club in Washington DC once told me that a good cook could make anything, anywhere, with anything. It is incumbent on us as a societal good to provide life skills to young people.
Homeless is a real problem. I have not been there - close, but not there. There you get to infrastructure and community.
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Where do you live that equipments, such as crockpots, microwaves, counter top ovens come free of charge? Time is usually folks working multiple jobs or working that much harder to afford basic things, and getting a crockpot or anything other piece of cookware is a trade off between food NOW vs. all the other meals you can cook. This is a real trade off some people make every day. This also requires time for regular trips to the market to buy food fresh, because we’re already shaming them for cooking too much processed and boxed foods, right? Of course a nice fridge to store this stuff takes more money, so how do you prioritize? I have to be honest, if I were living paycheck to paycheck, a crockpot may not be my priority either.
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Indeed. Plus it’s important to remember how expensive it is to be poor: it’s harder to afford things that are of good quality so they need to be replaced, rented, etc.
I won’t get into discussions with some others here because it’s not worth it.
And yet you feel free to chime in about it. Okay, then! During your “rice and mustard years,” were you by chance a single parent with kids in different schools, so that your “long day at work” was extended by having to drop them off and pick them up? How might that have affected your “limited time for shopping”?
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Do you have any data to backup your assertions about today’s youth and your dim view of school curriculum, because that just sounds like urban legend.
This is the school district of my youth- they seem to have a pretty decent program.
I don’t see what you describe here in Oregon, but then housing is a much bigger problem here than food or lack of same.
Nicely said. Moreover, what if ‘drop off’ and ‘pick up’ were public transport dependent in a place with crappy insfrastructure or with no public transport options?
“Low Income” discussions are so challenging on a large scale. We so quickly think about what we “imagine” it would be like in our neighborhoods, which is really such a biased and myopic viewpoint.
I recently drove from Dallas to Lubbock TX - a 5-6 hour drive through (sorry to the people that live there) absolutely fucking nothing. There were towns but WOW did it remind me that there a giant stretches of this country that have absolutely no relation to where I live (not talking politics, which I’m avoiding like the plague for now - I’m talking just basic infrastructure).
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I think you may have two significant groups which suffer from a lack of public transport (particulary effecting those in rural communities). First, as indicated, the low income families with children who may not be able to afford their own transport. But, also elderly people who may, at one point, have owned a car but now either can’t afford one in retirement (that was the situation with my in-laws), or have age related medical conditions which mitigate against them driving. Whether living in an urban or rural area, both groups are effectively stuck with the local “corner shop” or, at best, convenience store - low choice & high prices.
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As I said, I have been poor. My comment about a Crock-Pot was in recognition of the difficulty of a marginal expense that makes life easier. I could as easily have pointed out the pain of buying a 5 lb bag of rice at a higher unit cost because you’d have to give up something else to afford a 20 lb bag. I did not mention microwaves or countertop ovens and don’t use either to this day.
I’ll also point out that no one has recognized utility cost as a factor. To this day I notice when a recipe says “simmer for two hours” and think about utility costs.
You don’t have to work multiple jobs for long days. I worked shift and a half with a two hour commute in one direction and three hours going home. More than once I pulled over to rest and fell asleep, never making it home before I had to go back to work.
You seem sympathetic to the plight of those less fortunate. That’s nice. Have you lived that life as I have?
Sounds like helicopter parenting to me. Drop them off and pick them up? Are you kidding? It’s a good thing there are school buses.
You left out the bigger issues of scheduled early release (four-and-a-half day school weeks), teacher “work days,” holidays that regular people don’t get, and a nanny state that limits how long responsible kids can stay at home and how old a sibling must be to care for younger brothers and sisters? Then there is the summer break and all the extra costs that come with that.
You also left out health issues including disability with benefits that run out and force you back to work, often in a job that pays less because you can’t do what you used to. Oh and car repairs you can’t afford in a world with inadequate public transportation. Have you ever convinced a school bus driver to give you a ride so you could get to a bus stop?
I don’t need an elitist liberal media outlet like the NYT to tell me about a life I have lived. I’m sure it’s nice to be so confident in your resources that you will pay for subscriptions to a bunch of newspapers. I’m pretty comfortable now but in large measure because I don’t fritter money away on pay-for propaganda.
Not all schools are served by a bus system. I can’t believe I need to point this out.
Your argument boils down to this: I was faced with X challenges and overcame them. Because BOOTSTRAPS. Because GUMPTION. Therefore, anyone faced with any challenges can also overcome them.
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@bbqboy - That is a nice program but is a reflection of the problem. Bear with me.
When I was growing up home economics and industrial arts were electives in junior high school (now called middle school) and high school. Beyond English, History/Government/Social Studies, Mathematics, and Science we had time to sign up for electives including home ec, shop, orchestra, and drama. But girls were pushed toward home ec and boys toward shop and as political correctness began to take root in the 70s after the social advances of the 60s (these are personal assessments and therefore opinion) instead of recognizing the value of home ec and shop as life skills and making guidance counselors actually do something they were shuffled off to tech tracks for kids who had no interest or ability for college. Thus you get culinary/hospitality programs and mechanics programs and electrician programs. As a direct result over on Reddit in r/cooking, on no end of Facebook groups, and elsewhere that the second (third?) Internet generation turn to for guidance there is a groundswell from July through October of kids begging for help feeding themselves. Is it any wonder that Kraft and Stouffers see revenue bumps in the Fall? We’re talking basic life skills here: meal planning, shopping lists, basic cooking, budgeting, changing a tire, hanging a curtain, heck changing a light bulb. In my opinion home ec and shop should BE in the core curriculum.
If you live in or near a college town pay attention in the aisles of your grocery store in the late afternoon and look for the haunted looks on the faces of young people. How sad is it that they don’t know what to do?
I was fortunate. In my school system the jr high had such a great shop program that by the time I got to high school there was no point in taking shop so I took home ec (admittedly to meet girls, which worked). I learned skills, now deeply ingrained that have served me well through good times and bad.
The tech track, which usually means less time for STEM and English, is not the place for those life skills. Children should leave high school able to budget, to cook, to shop, to change a tire, to understand physical and life sciences, mathematics at least through algebra, and to be able to construct a sentence.
As the great Robert Heinlein said “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”
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Every place I have lived on both coasts, including some quite rural areas had school buses, so yes you need to point this out. Even some place that don’t have school buses per se (parts of New York City) have transit passes for bus and subway. Where is there NO public transit for schools?
You also said " it’s not just a lack of money or skills, it’s a lack of time and equipment. " This isn’t about bootstraps or gumption. It’s about focus and priorities. It is about skills. It’s about societal good. Just as generational poverty and dependence aren’t about money but about commitment to education and cultural change (Mr. Biden’s derided comment about social workers to change culture). It isn’t about minimum wage, it’s about skills. Have you seen the discussion about restaurants in San Fransisco here on HO? The road to Hell is surely paved with good intentions.
You can insert a tirade here about Cal PUC and CalEPA and the fires in CA but that would be political. You have to see that government control is generally not a “good thing.” ← clever food related reference. grin
For those who watch/watched The Big Bang Theory remember there was an episode that talked about getting more women into technical professions. Yes, yes, it’s just a TV show. The point was made that college is too late. You have to make a difference in middle school (and I’d suggest elementary school). We should never give up but shoveling money at problems is not a solution (see the outcomes of inner city schools). To solve the problems of well intentioned mismanagement we have to do something different (ref Einsteins definition of insanity of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result). Cultural change is as good a next step as any to close the disconnect between cooking tips and reality.
Mods: I’ve tried really hard to walk the line on politics but this whole thread implies politics. Let me know specifically where I need to reword, if I do, and I will.
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This is a theme that runs through most of your responses. If you have no personal knowledge or experience of something, you have trouble accepting that it exists or has an impact.
In New York City, where I’ve lived for more than 30 years, there is indeed a public transit system that works pretty well and serves most areas. There are also neighborhoods where parents are understandably reluctant to let their kids travel alone. Even with their transit passes! Helicopter parents, amirite?
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I do live in a college town and I don’t see what you described at all.
Again, maybe the West Coast is just more resourceful and practical.
There is a difference between no transit option and one that doesn’t work well. Crime problems against children on public transit is not a school problem - it’s a law enforcement problem. That doesn’t make it less a problem.
I was born in Queens and grew up with grandparents in Queens. I went to college out on the Island and spent a lot of time in the City. Is that the same as living in Manhattan for 30 years? No. I think you’re being contrary about solving systemic problems systematically.
Or maybe parents do a better job of teaching life skills out there than on the right coast. I’d be surprised but it is possible.
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