90 minutes is usually not an issue if it’s just me and my husband. But, I would rather not be told I had a 90 minute time limit. In one instance my husband and I had a 6pm res at a local French place. The owner gave us a nice corner 4 top and asked if we could be out by 7:30 in time for the table reservation.
Recently a very wise fellow HO member told me that “you try a restaurant for the cooking, and you return for the hospitality. That said, in life you have one chance to make a first impression, so choose accordingly.”
I think that perfectly sums it up.
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This should be a mutual understanding between the patrons and the establishment. If the restaurant chooses to have a 90 minute window for a table of 2 or 4 so they can appropriate turn the tables for several seatings, and the diners are required to order apps and mains at the same time, then the establishment should damn well make sure the mains are being served at an appropriate time after the apps (i.e., not within a few minutes after finishing the apps). Ninety minutes is an appropriate time to enjoy a pre-dinner cocktail, have an app, the main, and dessert or coffee. If the kitchen fucks up and the main is delayed, the patrons should not be penalized for now having a shorter time frame in which to enjoy the rest of their meal.
But if the apps and mains are being shot out to the tables as if they were on the sped-up conveyor belt from the famous “I Love Lucy” candy factory conveyor belt, then the restaurant is wholly in the wrong and needs to retrain staff - both FOH and BOH.
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I don’t know what it’s like elsewhere but, in the UK, it would be most odd to do other than this. At any level of dining, it’s customary to order both together. The only time I recall seeing a follow-up order (other than desserts) has been in “small plates” places where folk might well order mezze/tapas and then, later, order some more
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I don’t disagree with you, Harters. But I guess I’m looking at it if a couple would like to have an appetizer while they continue to look at the menu for their main, unless it completely throws off the kitchen, why not?
While it doesn’t happen a lot, I’ve been at places where a group knows what apps they want, but still aren’t sure about the mains, and the staff serving them will say “I’ll put in your apps, and check later to take your order for the mains.” But I do understand that it can throw off the kitchen’s rhythm ordering that way.
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It’s standard to order both at the same time, although if you’re dining with a large-ish group, you may be asked whether you want to “start off with some appetizers,” which I’ve always thought was a way for the restaurant to get the meal started while everyone’s mostly hanging out and chatting and not even looking at the menu.
On my first visit to Burger & Lobster, I was pressured to put my drink and food order in simultaneously, and the food arrived before the drink. On a subsequent visit, I refused to order food 'til I got my drink, which pissed off the server, but better him than me.
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We have visited many rooms where you are requested to order dessert along with starter and main. And a few where special desserts NEED to be requested early on because of advance cooking requirements, but that is a different horse.
Ordering a dessert, if specially made and needs advance notice/cooking/baking - that I understand. But how am I to know if I want dessert until after I finish my app/main? If I’m too full, I wouldn’t want dessert…but am forced to pay for something that would, in all likelihood, go uneaten.
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That would piss me off big time. I recall it happening once, maybe twice. Made me wonder just how the kitchen managed to prep the starter before front of house can bring a drink.
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I can’t recall a single time when that’s happened to me (maybe during Restaurant Week?). At the start of a meal, I don’t even know if I want dessert at all.
Unfortunately I have been burned too many times, when I order the main course and appetizer at the same time. No matter how many times the server assures me don’t worry it will be paced accordingly, invariably the main comes within minutes of us finishing our appetizers. Also, as I mentioned in an earlier post, sometimes I like to order several appetizers because those tend to be the most creative dishes, and show off the chef’s best work. There are some restaurants that we go to where we would only order like 5 or 6 appetizers instead of a main course because those dishes are more interesting than any of the main courses. In those cases I don’t know how full I will be after finishing the appetizers (although we usually just have a taste and take the leftovers home, unless it is really good 
). In those cases I might initially want a heavy meat dish but then be too full and want to switch to a lighter seafood dish. If I ordered everything up front it would be too late to change my order since they would be firing it up while I’m eating my appetizer.
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That usually happens when they have something like a chocolate souffle on the menu (that takes a half hour to make). They want you to order that up front. You might also see that in a 3 course tasting menu, (or prix fixe menu) where you have to give your app, main, and dessert up front.
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Because the FOH is standing around at the bar-back chit-chatting with each other vs. getting their orders in to the bar.
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At the time, Burger & Lobster had only three main course options: burger, steamed lobster, lobster roll, all $20. I’m pretty sure the kitchen cranked them out ceaselessly and servers just grabbed the next one to hit the pass. They survived (temporarily, the prices have gone way up) on volume and turnover. Which is all well and good, but I’m not willing to eatdrinkgo in 15:00 just to sustain someone else’s flawed business model.
I totally understand. I most often leave dessert even when I order it. It always sounds good in print but fails to be a positive end to an otherwise fine meal.
I think in Pilgrim’s context the ‘different horse’ meant that in that instance you had to order your dessert up front because it required special handling and extra time (like a souffle), as opposed to other instances where she was required to order dessert up front even though there was no special handling required for that dessert. They just wanted the main, app, and dessert order all at once.
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Yes, I know that. And my point - that I’ve never been asked to order dessert before I’ve finished my main course except in extremely rare instances - still stands. It sounds like something that would happen on a cruise ship, or at a dinner theater, or whatever.
I don’t eat out much here, but it’s not uncommon in France/Paris.
Ok. Point noted I’m not arguing with you I was just responding to the ‘different horse’ comment and not your personal experience.
