I understand this logic and agree. “Well, the markup here is high and I don’t want to drink an overpriced bottle of poor quality. If I want to drink wine, and I must be ripped off, I’d like to at least enjoy it.”
Re: that wine list - Wow, those are some eye-popping prices. For fun I randomly googled the 110€ 2021 - Pouilly Fuissé - Vieilles vignes - Domaine des Deux Roches and it clocks in around $25-30 (and that’s with import.to the U.S.!). The menu does note that tax and service are included, so maybe that accounts for about 20-25% of it?
Except that’s not actually a $100 bottle of wine - it’s a $20-25 bottle, and for people who spend a lot of time thinking about wine, there can be a pretty big step function between a $20 bottle, a $50 bottle, and a $100 bottle.
Not to say that there aren’t excellent bottles at the $20 and below price point, especially for those who spend time looking for gems in there — I certainly do. But if a wine list has two choices at that price point, the person who doesn’t often buy $20 bottles is not guaranteed satisfaction.
Why do restaurants allow one to bring in wine with a corkage charge?
Wine and food are not the same, even to the restaurant. The highest corkage I have come across is $50 (maybe $100 somewhere swanky that really didn’t want you to bring in a cheap bottles). Usually it’s $10-30 in nyc.
But for that $1000 bottle which at cost is say $200-500 (markups tending to get lower as base price goes up), it’s probably worth $100 corkage instead of markup + tax + 20%. The numbers add up much faster than they do with food (how many $20 vs $60 entrees does it take to get to that wine markup).
I have friends who regularly have wine dinners across nyc, always at nicer places with fancy wine lists and great food. They bring in a case or two of wine and pay the corkage (always by previous agreement) and have never run into any issues regarding “stiffing” on tips — the restaurants and the somms are happy to have them.
CCE
(Keyrock the unfrozen caveman lawyer; your world frightens & confuses me)
69
You’ve used this word monster more than once in thread, if I recall my earlier reading correctly, and also referred to it as odious.
But you’ve stiffed a server yourself, who as you described was beyond ridiculous. I’m assuming this meant you got really lousy service.
I’ve not been around here since 2015 - so I don’t know if perhaps there’s some history between you and some others here.
But it’s strange to see such strong language as naming other posters monsters for saying they wouldn’t want to tip for lousy service, when you’ve had to make that same decision yourself (yes, I saw that you covered the others like bussing staff who may have been sharing the pool).
Disclaimer - no particular dog in this fight as I’ve never worked in the industry and, luckily, I’ve never had such ridiculous/lousy service as to want to forego the tip.
Right. I am aware of the markup of wine bottles in restaurants - it’s usually (?) about 3x the price you’d pay if you bought it at the store.
I just very rarely dine at restaurants where the wine list prices average in the 3-4 figure range, although I probably should in Germany since nobody expects a 20% tip here, pre-tax or else
Lastly, I’m far from a connoisseur. I like wine - Rieslings in particular, and many Italian/Austrian/Greek/Georgian varietals unavailable to me in PA - and I can appreciate the occasional vintage (on someone else’s dime)… but I was also perfectly happy with the 2 Euro bottles of vinho verde purchases at the bodega late at night while vacationing in Lisbon
Sure, but I don’t think the price point — or being able to afford (or choosing to spend a certain amount on) something makes the amount tipped (or spent) irrelevant to someone (or we wouldn’t have this thread).
I used to feel that way too about higher priced wines. But that’s likely because wines usually have the widest spread of price on any restaurant menu and it seemed that the server did exactly the same amount of work to pour a $50 bottle as a $300 one. Then I began to realize that the server also did the same amount of work in serving me a cup of coffee as with a $100 aged steak. If I could afford the $300 wine, who was I kidding with parsing the tip?
CCE
(Keyrock the unfrozen caveman lawyer; your world frightens & confuses me)
75
Hi, and thank you for taking the time to reply.
But this part -
I can’t find anywhere in my comment that indicates “the fact” that I felt like you were “calling me out”. To the contrary, I stated my disinterest, made it clear in my comment that I understood who it was that you were calling out, and said that I’d never had a bad enough service experience that I felt like foregoing the tip.
I did say it’s weird to see a first member calling another member “a monster” for saying they’d skip the tip for sufficiently lousy service, where the first member has done the same.
You’ve made it seem as if you’ve set yourself up as the ultimate authority of what is sufficiently lousy service (your own experience), and what is not sufficiently lousy service (whatever it was that another member had in mind as lousy).
This is not directed specifically at you @Sunshine842 , but I’m going to need to look up “slave wages”.
As much as I try to resist participating in tip threads, every time someone suggests the situation can be easily summarized, I feel the need to make sure folks are aware that in the US the situation for tipped employees varies.
By state
And in California and elswhere by city
In addition, some cities include benefits, and in some cities, each additional surcharge is listed on your bill.
Should diners be shamed if they don’t tip on the surcharge?
To me that means the view from a city like San Francisco is going to look very different than one from say Orlando. That is one reason I like it here on HO.
It seems like there is so much one could add to this discussion, but not here.
Except one more thing; when I think of people who are “monsters”, this subject is not what comes to mind.
I live where there is no state sales tax, but a community 3% ‘resort tax’. There is also an additional community 1% ‘optional’ fee (it goes to ‘tourism enhancement’) on almost everything under the sun. Many customers opt out on the optional 1% for many different reasons; mainly they don’t want to promote tourism. It’s complicated, but on the other hand, easy. When you get the bill, the food and drink together are added together, the 3% or 4% ‘resort tax’ is added and you tip on top of that. In areas of the state that don’t have these ‘resort taxes and fees’ you pay your bill and you’d better tip generously. We do. We would also will put a buck or two in the bartender’s jar for a PBR; one in the barista’s jar, or the burger drive through jar—(now there are locked boxes!) if we were to visit them. We don’t bowever, contribute to the jar in the convenience store check out, or the grocery stores.
How tips are distributed among the staff is always a mystery to me. If our meal is extraordinary, are we supposed to seperately tip the host, the order taker, and the server? Should everyone that handles my order or those who were involved in preparing it be served?
Long ago I was read the riot act at a hair salon (I know this is not food related) once for NOT tipping the hostess, the shampoo girl, the colorist and the cutter, the blow out person separately. I paid for the total ‘encounter’ and included, what I thought was a generous 20% tip for the whole shebang. The separate cashier informed me that each person should be tipped, but didn’t bother to suggest how much for each and whether I should tip her, too? Hooboy! I left ( I had no more $$ left and if I had paid on my credit card, how many more total separate charges, 6? ), never to return due to my embarrasment. It was the best service I had at a salon, but I felt I could never afford that again, darn it.
Recently, I have been seeing eateries and businesses add ‘service fees’ (a percentage or flat rate) to your credit or debit card if that is your method of payment. What’s that all about?
Its a pass through of the charges imposed by the card processors. Usually 3%.
Most servers have to tip out the rest of the staff, usually as a percentage of the total ticket…it varies widely but 2% to the bartender and 1% to the kitchen is an example. Some tip out to runners and hostess, too. So yeah, its possible to leave a server out of pocket if you dont tip.
Your hair salon experience is, however, bs of the highest order. If they are collectively so screwed up that they cant figure out how to equitably share a tip at the close of the ticket, their failure as a whole is pretty well forecast. Its one thing to have a tip jar at each station for an optional pay as you go, but not a requirement. And then to read you the riot act is particularly odious.
There was no single individual intended. If you stiff a server for anything but the most egregious train wreck (for which you need to talk to a manager and explain why you’re notnleaving a tip)you’re enter derogatory term of choice because you literally put the value of their time and effort at zero. I choose the word monster. Use whatever you prefer.
Wasnt even on my radar. Cant fix how you interpret my statement that there’s only been one time out of the thousands of meals that I didn’t tip a server at all (even though you acknowledged that I tippes the rest of the staff).
The server may do the same amount of work regardless of the price of the bottle of wine. However, part of the cost of wine in a restaurant is their sommelier, storage, etc.
