Yep. Eastern European/Baltic (edit - but 3rd gen American). Our little town was Black and White and nothing else.
Too late to take a poll of my HS classmates now but I’d lay odds that most or all of us (Black or white) would have viewed a Persian or Indian restaurant as “foreign” (because I doubt “ethnic” would have been in our vocab).
My Greek grandfather ran a steakhouse in the Bay Area. Prime Rib, steak, salmon, etc.
The Greek foods were only served at home.
Why do you keep conflating ethnicity and nationality? There is a distinction and many of us work really hard to fight ethnic nationalism. Yes, we all see ourselves as different, and we can acknowledge ethic and cultural differences, but these are not inherently the same as national ones.
I believe you have made that point before, and I wonder if it’s harder for many of us hyphenated “Americans” to better appreciate.
I think it is obvious that it is different, but I have felt that there must be a very important difference that I would like to understand better.
ETA I looked up ethnic nationalism.
Who said I was?
If Im speaking to a born-and-bred American who’s never been out of the US, then “ethnic” is absolutely going to mean anything with which they are not familiar.
To my friends who have a wider global view, I usually call the store by name, because chances are they know the place.
An awful lot of this discussion comes down to context and knowing your audience.
Another large piece is to not immediately assume malicious intention.
amen and amen to that last statement.
I am not sure the ‘familiarity test’ holds up. I have never heard of a French restaurant being called ethnic, but I have heard Mexican called that even if the latter cuisine is far more familiar.
I don’t assume it’s malicious. I call it blithely clueless.
Standing O.
I expressed a similar sentiment here recently, but it certainly shouldn’t be limited to online exchanges, although those seem to be the more difficult to navigate.
Okay, no intended malice. That said, these might inform.
Language is rife with terms that can result in microaggressions, even when there is no malicious intent.
McKinsey & Company, and Johns Hopkins…
It stands up in my existence. I cant claim any knowledge of yours at all.
I know people who’ve never traveled out of their own region of their own state. For them, French is ethnic and fancy and exotic. (These folks call spaghetti EyeTalian good)
I also know people whove lived in multiple countries on a few continents. Ethnic to them doesnt really have a meaning
I know people all along the continuum between them…so once again ita about knowing your audience and not assuming malice.
I love all my people, all along the continuum, and dont judge them by their travel history or education.
And at what point do we obsess about this to the point that everyone on earth (except us, of course) is just a flaming ethnocentric whatever with a huge side of ?
I’ll be over here with my rose colored glasses, assuming people are decent until they prove otherwise.
“ Ham and iceberg lettuce with Wishbone salad dressing salads. It had a lot to do with fitting in during difficult times.“
Interesting to me because you represent Wishbone as a comforting whitebread American creation when back then it was an ethnic creation.
Give a cuisine/culture 2 generations and it becomes a part of Americana.
trouble is, Ive never seen bottled salad dressing in Italy. or stuff like dried garlic or “neutral” oils put in salads. Its a decidedly mass-produced american food, inspired by italian salad making methods. (as an aside, we were lectured by my Mom, a home ed teacher, about the importance of cooking with “neutral” oils rather than those with a distinct flavor. (except maybe bacon grease or butter) But to forgive her there wasnt much if any good olive oil around in Columbus Ohio back then.
Interesting.
So ethnic only refers to unreconstructed foods from the homeland, wherever that might be.
I gotta ponder that.
This seems like the old authentic argument.
Murphy’s Online Law: people can and will argue about anything.
So someone flagged my message about privilege. How ironic. Really says a lot.
Every single user here has the privilege to flag comments. Every single one, regardless of their background.
Yeah I was kind of surprised, because privilege is a pretty real thing that almost always displays itself in these kinds of threads, and frequently to gaslight the issue at hand.
I couldn’t put my finger on it till you posted the micro-aggression links. It was so long ago that we had micro-aggression training replace other kinds of diversity training in the workplace because those didn’t move the needle — but watching people’s faces as daily demonstrated behaviors get tagged as micro-aggressions? Boom! There you go.
My dad, who had a phd in dairy science from the University of Wisconsin was trained to identify oxidation rancidity and other “off flavors” in cheeses and meats. He had a very sensitive palate and often criticized the cheeses and salamis we bought in NYC specialty markets as having these properties. It was only when he traveled in France, Germany and Spain in his later years that he was converted to become enthusiastic about these foreign or “ethnic” food types.
