For most of the folks who live around me, ethnic means anything other than hamburgers.
Of course everyone would call it English or British. The issue is the use of the word “ethnic.” Would they call it ethnic? Most wouldn’t.
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Exactly!
Sure. But why would “different” or “not normal” in this context is viewed as a negative thing. As opposed to “International” which implies the same thing. Food that its not from here hence not common to us (or some of us)
Its an interesting discussion, and I hoped I’m not offending.
But that doesnt really replace “ethnic” as it can mean Italian and French.
If someone says “Jackson Heights is home to all sorts of cheap Int’l food, specifically from the orient.” Would that be more polite? I think not
Ceviche isn’t from the orient though
South Asia also isn’t usually referred to as the orient
And we generally stopped using the orient and oriental a while ago for the same reasons that we’re discussing here
From Webster’s:
The adjective oriental , which carries strong associations with colonialism and with language that others and exoticizes, is usually considered offensive when used by non-Asian people to describe people of various Asian identities.
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No offense (not to me anyway).
If you are from any “other” culture, “other” was not / is not a pleasant place to be.
You just have to read or listen to any chef of a non-western culture who grew up in the US and had their food labeled stinky or gross as a kid only to have it be uber trendy now. Dave Chang has been very vocal about it, for eg.
Hmart fitting into the UES or UWS today is a vastly different situation than Korean kids being mocked for stinky kimchi or japanese kids for eww raw sushi.
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Hence my last sentence. Though I think there’s a distinction between “orient” in some contexts and “oriental”. But I get that both are retired. I should have said South Asia.
But my point is that its hard to avoid being politically incorrect when describing certain neighborhoods.
We are inching closer to “dont call it Chinatown anymore”
I don’t think these are the same thing
Weren’t they just trying to call somewhere else a chinatown and there was a discussion that there has to be more cultural rooting than just restaurants?
I’m sure someone remembers that discussion
No but I remember discussing that the Little Italys out there shouldnt be called as such because there are no Italians living there. Maybe similar to some Chinatowns
Might have been about Hell’s Kitchen, given the proliferation of chinese restaurants thanks to the chinese embassy and bank of China hq
ETA:
Yes, Sietsemaism
Yep
I once saw a supermarket aisle sign that said:
Kosher Foods
Goya Foods
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Amazed to see how differently people interpet the word “ethnic”. I’ve always thought of the meaning as “serving the food of a specific ethnic group” therefore an Italian, French or Japanese restaurant is ethnic.
I never consider race to be the basis of an ethnic group so mind blown to see the word intertwined with race as @small_h asserted.
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In most cases around here (central NJ), “Asian” or “South Asian” would be better labels than more specific nationalities. (The biggest one is named “Asian Food Mart”.) Ditto for “Hispanic” or “Latino” rather than “Mexican”.
There are also Eastern European grocery stores, which are certainly not going to call themselves"Russian" these days, nor would that be accurate.
But “International” is just too broad a brush for any of them.
Don’t all cultures have & use terms for The Other? Like “farang” in Thailand, or "odar" in Armenia (anyone non-Armenian, literally meaning “other”), or “gaijin” in Japan. Or, if we want to go really far back, “barbarian” for anyone not Greek. It’s certainly not limited to the west.
We are all The Other somewhere else 
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Yeah, thats where I was getting at, without actually getting there 
. Thats why I mentioned Sri Lankan in Italy. If you think its different and “other” here, imagine growing up there.
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I guess I assumed exoticism / orientalism were more widely understood than they appear to be.
All “others” are not equal because “other” does not only mean “different”: it entails discrimination only in some directions.
For eg, “foreigner” in India is not negatively discriminatory. But the inverse “ethnic” descriptor in the UK for South Asians was weaponized as a racist slur.
So “other” is not equal in all directions.
But I’ll leave it there. There’s plenty written to read on it elsewhere.
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I am not sure your idea of European influence is of great importance. As one example, a Dominican restaurant is heavily influenced by Spanish cuisine (European), but for those who use the term ethnic, I am guessing that Dominican would fall into that category. It’s pretty much a racial category for most usage, though your personal usage may differ from what is common.
I am glad the usage is fading.
For Jackson Heights (or anywhere else) I would describe a place as specifically as possible. Anymore, I don’t refer to any restaurant as Chinese, for example. I will use the term Chinese-American or specify the province or city.
If a place serves Trini food, I don’t call it Caribbean.
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