Beauty’s Luncheonette
Ferreira Caffe on Peel https://ferreiracafe.com/
Milos (the first Milos) on Parc
L’Express
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I don’t think I’ve ordered poutine in Montreal since 1996.
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Montreal bagels are a completely different style and are not comparable to New York bagels. They are drier, heavier, sweeter, and smokier. Unique and wonderful.
Similarly, Montreal smoked meat is different from pastrami and in its own league.
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Another fan of Vin Papillon. Was there in October. I always liked Liverpool House better than Joe Beef but have not been to either in a while. Also love L’Express but as noted it’s French not Canadian. Not really a fan of APDC. Jean Talon market is great. Nothing comparable in NYC. I prefer Montreal bagels to the puffy bread bombs that we have in most places in NYC. My favorite NY bagel these days is Blackseed which is Montreal style. Smoked meat is fantastic and half the price of a sandwich at Katz.
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I’m from the NYC area (amongst many areas I’ve lived in). Would be interesting to try what Montreal offers cause i kept hearing from folks from Canada that the Montreal versions are better. Looking forward to it!
At first glance, Jean Talon Market seems similar to Essex Market and others like it? Will definitely check it out to get a better feel!
What would you say is different from Katz besides the price (it’s a bit of a tourist trap at Katz)?
Thank you!!
Just different, not better or worse.
No, Jean Talon is a real market where regular people shop for multiculturally diverse groceries, local product in summer, and gourmet specialties in an Italian neighborhood that borders a diverse blue collar neighbourhood (Parc Extension- Sri Lankan , Latino, Elderly Greeks, and so on), whereas Essex is a bougie food court in a gentrified neighbourhood.
I was so disappointed by Essex Market.
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We have markets like that in brooklyn/queens. Manhattan isn’t a city of “regular people.” Most folks move out of Manhattan in their 30s or once they have kids.
Have you tried Shopsins when at Essex Market prior to Kenny passing? It’s a very uniquely NYC experience if you engage him in conversation.
That’s why i said “at first glance” and “others like it”. The immediate “no” in your response is a bit uncalled for, don’t you think? If i’m imagining things or taking it the wrong way, my apologies. I am looking to explore a place i’ve never been to before and can only pull from experiences i’ve had. Images of Jean Talon Market on google maps looked similar to Essex Market/Boston Public Market/others like it. Looking forward to checking it out
I know. I used to live in Manhattan.
I wouldn’t say most folks move out of Manhattan once they are in their 30s. Most people on this Board who are based in Manhattan are over 50. Everyone I know in Manhattan right now is over 50.
I never ate at Shopsin’s.
Sorry if my directness hurt your feelings.
Once you visit Jean Talon Market, you will see it doesn’t have the gimmicky aspects of the Essex Market, or the tourist trappy aspects of the Boston Public Market.
Atwater Market Montreal is smaller, with less purveyors and more take-out food, and it reminds me more of the Boston Public Market than Jean Talon does.
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I live very close to the Boston Public Market, and we’ve been going since it opened.
At the beginning, it seemed great. Over time, some outlets we really like closed, and the fresh produce diminished to the point that it’s not appealing at all. It’s turned out to be set up for tourists and take out, and no tourists are looking to purchase fresh produce.
Got worse with and after covid. A promising concept that devolved for us.
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I was impressed my first couple visits to Boston, but it seemed like a tourist trap on my last visit in 2018. I find the Ferry Building in San Francisco and the Granville Island Market similar to the Boston Market. Nice to visit as a visitor, somewhere I wouldn’t visit often as a local.
I find Jean Talon in Montreal more along the lines of the Union Square Greenmarket in Manhattan. If I lived nearby, or within a 20 minute walk, I’d shop there weekly.
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We spent a month in Montreal last May, driving up from Brooklyn. I wrote up several food reviews here if you want to read a bit of which places we liked. Maybe some of my overall impressions would be helpful as well, so here they are:
-Schwartz’s meat sandwiches were very good. I grew up on NYC deli food and liked this as much as Katz’ or Second Ave Deli or Mill Basin Deli (I had to get a Bklyn place in there). The meat is neither pastrami nor corned beef so there’s no direct comparison, only taste buds.
-Montreal bagels are just not to my liking. Very different from NYC style and worth a taste. According to some internet write up which I think is accurate, “Authentic Montreal bagels are boiled in water with honey, and as a result are sweeter than New York bagels. But the bigger difference is that they are cooked in wood-fired ovens, which gives them a crunchier crust and a deeper, richer crust flavor.”. We went to both St. Viator & Fairmount, usually considered two of the best places and got them fresh out of the oven.
-Poutine is not easily found in NYC and you should definitely read about who is considered the best and try it for yourself. I also found foie gras to be more readily available and better.
-there’s a large indoor market called Marche Adonis on St.Catherine that we found fascinating. It’s a huge place into which you could throw both Zabar’s and Sahadi’s and still have room. Highly recommended, as they have all sorts of ethnic foods with preparations that are not to be found in NYC and are worth sampling.
-both Atwater and Jean Talon markets reminded me more of the markets found in Paris neighborhoods than those in NYC. More like Union Square Market combined with Eataly. I didn’t get an Essex Market feel from either.
-not sure what your idea of culture is, but we liked the time we spent admiring the street art murals throughout Montreal.
Overall, in some ways Montreal reminded me of Brooklyn. Many neighborhoods, each different but clearly becoming more vibrant. A city well worth exploring. Have fun. Hope this was somewhat helpful.
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I grew up and lived in NY/NJ (between the two) in my young adult years. Most folks living in Manhattan are from outside the city. Most folks in Brooklyn/Queens are from the city. The folks who stick around tend to live in the upper east or upper west side. Head traders, lawyers, doctors, etc prefer to live in the suburbs. It’s a smaller percentage that choose to stay/live in the city once they have kids.
Everyone I know who lived in Manhattan (not the other boroughs where there is more space) no longer live there. Most live in Summit/Short Hills/Westfield NJ, long Island, or upstate NY.
It’s something like 70% of Manhattan are rental only. Out of the 30% (which tend to be in more inconvenient locations besides the upper east/west sides) 75% or co-op where you have to deal with obnoxious boards (the 70/75% may be flipped as it’s been a while since I had bought my apt in Manhattan). There is very little incentive to live in Manhattan with young kids unless shopping is a priority and space is not. Manhattan’s busy sidewalks and subways make it a nightmare for strollers.
The question was more of whether you were saying essentially “heck no” cause you had a visceral reaction to Essex market (no hard feelings) or a uncalled for/dismissive “no” to my first impressions off of first glance (anyone would be taken aback by that…). In the end, this is all in type. Hard to discern tone/intent at times depending on how something is written which was why i’ve added the caveat.
Cheers
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Very sad to hear what hapened to that market. Glad I’ve at least experienced it when it was good (prior to Covid). Another place to remove after covid…
Thank you very much for this insight!! This is extremely helpful for a NYer’s POV. I now have my bearings.
Cheers!!
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Do you still live in the city? If not when did you leave? I ask as this is a bit of an antiquated view. I know lots of people in every category you listed and most of them still live in the city. People who leave do so most often because of cost, not usually choosing to do so if they can afford to stay. One of my sales guys actually just sold his house and moved back to the city with his wife and two toddler children because they missed being here. Apartments and condos that are being built these days are family sized with 3-4 bedrooms to accommodate all the families.
Jean Talon is nothing like Essex. As Steve R wrote its more like the markets of Paris. The local produce that is sold is amazing. The whole city has a more European feel.
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I wanted to add some thoughts about the difference in markets between Essex Market and Jean Talon.
I wrote a few things about the market and posted pictures from my last trip here.
I agree with @Phoenikia that Essex is basically a fancy food court. There are very few vendors that sell anything that you would buy if you were doing basic food shopping. And what is sold is expensive. Not for every day shopping. Not remotely. It’s for tourists and the special occasion shopping and snacking.
If I lived close by the Jean Talon market I would be there several times a week. If I lived in Montréal and didn’t live close by I would likely be there once a week to stock up.
Markets like Jean Talon are for people who cook. Essex and its ilk are for foodies who don’t cook.
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Latest move out of Manhattan and into NJ in 2016. Moved to Toronto in 2022.
New condos are typically going up further away from the subway lines, no? At least that’s what i’ve noticed. Few new ones in battery park when I was leaving the city.
Our situation wasn’t because of money. We were quite comfortable. So were the other folks I knew. People I knew wanted more space than what an apartment could provide (avg home in NJ has 3 rooms but they’d opt for more with a two car garage and large backyard). They wanted the suburban upbringing for their kids. They didn’t want to smell the concentrated trash scent in the street during the hot summer months when the concrete heats up. They wanted the peace and quiet in the morning and night (no garbage pick up, sirens, sound of cars, etc). Parents lived in suburbs, siblings following suit, etc. Many different factors play into it and it was different aspects for different folks but there was always something. I’m sure for many others, cost factors in as well. My firstborn was delivered in Manhattan. My second born in NJ in the suburbs. I was shocked at the difference in the rooms where they had the wife and newborn stay. Felt like a palace with a view compared to what we saw in Manhattan (both for ours and family/friends). They even provided a nice sit down meal for the two of us prior to leaving in our room (complimentary) to give wifey additional comfort. I couldn’t believe it.
Sales might be tough considering the commute back from meeting clients later into the evening can be rough to do if had to do this on a regular basis (i’d have to seriously consider staying in Manhattan if that was my situation).
I don’t know of folks that ended up staying besides one family (wifey wanted to be close to all the shopping/entertainment) or those who were born and raised in Manhattan/families that have been there a generation+. Almost all instances of folks that moved out that I know could have stayed if they wanted to. Short Hills, Millburn, Summit, etc wasn’t cheap (at least the homes they moved into). Yes, cheaper if you’re talking about land/$. One of the HSs I went to (1st half in TX, 2nd half in NJ), we were rated the top public school in the country back in the day when I was there (many kids take a lot of private lessons outside school to stay competitive so it’s not exactly “free” but everyone who lived there could afford it cause folks are doctors/lawyers/traders/etc). Kids there considered anyone who didn’t make it into Ivys as failures since most of the students made it in just to give the sense of competition there - school was mostly jewish kids at the time. Several were legacy into Ivy). There are many folks that seek this out. Others opted for private school. There’s a lot of towns similar to this in NJ, Long Island, Upstate NY. Property taxes for homes within these top performing and exclusive schools tend to be very high (compared to other towns). I’ve been to other schools that are tops in other states in nice neighborhhoods but even then, they were nowhere near what I’ve experienced in NJ. All i can say is tiger parenting doesn’t apply solely to Asians. Seems all the exclusive neighborhood with top schools do the same thing in the US (I’ve lived in 6 states across 4 regions plus 2 countries outside the US).
That’s been my experience.
Thank you for the link to your post. This is very helpful! Will reference this along with references to other posts provided here.
Cheers!!
