Bogman, I noticed that on your SeedSavers Exchange post, you mention that “No C. annuum was grown nearby, so these seeds should be very pure.” I plan to grow Prik Kee Noo (Thai chili) next year and was wondering if cross polination will change the characteristics of the final fruit? If yes, is there a recommended seperation distance between different types of peppers so as to keep them “pure”?
" to lower the heat"
Your are right on there, the Septa/Veins is where the bulk of the Capsaicin resides not the Seeds as many believe.
Also the Er Jing Tiao are beautiful.
I’m not @bogman , but in general, cross pollination should only change the characteristics of the next generation of fruit. It changes the fruit you get if you plant the seeds of the fruit that develops from the flower that was cross pollinated.
Hope I didn’t make it more confusing!
Yes shrinkrap, I wasn’t clear enough in my post. I was thinking about the next generation of fruit from the seeds that might be cross polinated.
The more I thought about it and investigated it, I was thinking that it might not be a bad thing to have spicier Er Jing Tiao peppers (being cross polinated with Prik Kee Noo) and more flavorful, and less spicey Prik Kee Noo after being cross polinated with Er Jing Tiao… hmmmm???
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I see. I don’t know the growing distance but I know lots of folks recommend bagging the flowers.
Welcome to the group!
When cross pollination happens with peppers, the fruit/pods should not be affected. Crossing happens inside the seeds. If you save seeds, then the hybrids may show up the following generation(s).
Although sources are all over the map suggesting distances between different varieties to get pure seed, the truth is that it depends on what pollinators are present. Even if spaced 100 feet apart, some bees can/ will easily fly that distance. The Prik Kee Noo and Er Jing Tiao are both Capsicum annuum, making hybridization or outcrossing quite likely if the plants are grown near each other. To get pure pepper seed, you basically have three choices:
- Separate potential crosses by growing one of each incompatible species per year*. (*C. chinense & C, baccatum can cross, but not as vigorously). C, pubescens is unlikely to cross with others. C. frutescens crosses with several species.)
- Separate the plants by a distance of at least 1,000 feet or more.
- Bag unopened flowers, branches or entire plants to exclude pollinators. The best method is to use hoops and insect-proof netting to surround a group of the same variety, the entire plants. Open up the netting on one species at a time, e.g. variety #1 gets opened up so pollinators can pollinate WITHIN the variety for a few days. Then, close everything for a day or two before opening just variety #2 for a few days. Continue this as needed. This allows genetic exchange within the variety and increases yields of pods and seeds.
Some folks make “cages” out of wood framing, covered with screening, to cover individual plants. The cages can be lifted, one at a time, to the same effect as above. Bagging is more tedious, but uses less insect-proof material. It also reduces seed yields in most cases, unless manual pollination between the same variety is performed, more tedium.
Any crossing of Er Jing Tiao with Prik Kee Noo would be obvious, given the very different parent sizes.
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I think I may give this method a try as I want to make chili oil and need both types of peppers.
Thank you very much for your detailed response !!!
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Great answer! Thank you!
Could you… ahem…mingle the flowers of the ones you wanted to cross, bagging the flowers before and after?
Yes, indeed. To get the best results, it’s best to remove the stamens before they release pollen on the female/seed-bearing flower. This is to minimize self-pollination. A #2 watercolor paint brush works well for pollen transfer.
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The first use of Er Jing Tiao, Fermented Black Bean Chili oil.
After removing seeds and the main septum, leaving some septa for heat, the chilies got flaked in a food processor. Fermented black beans and the flakes were put into very hot oil to sizzle and infuse. It’ll be ready in a few days, but I tried some out and it’s delicious, spicy, but not too much.
I’ve made this oil many times, tweaking the pepper mixture and recipe. This time, instead of mixing dried chilies, I used only Er Jing Tiao and am happy for it. Good color right after making, but it’ll likely get deeper as it ages. It’s umami-rich, with the flavor of toasted chilies.
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Beautiful !!! I’m jealous.
