I have my own preferences and prejudices, but my politics don’t really agree with dress codes. I believe people should be judged on their behaviour and not their wardrobe. I’m a lot more bothered by loud obnoxious people and people who wear too much perfume than by those wearing ripped jeans or grown men in shorts. It’s unfortunate that restaurants don’t have a no *ssholes policy instead of a dress code. Then again, if they did, some places would go out of business.
That being said, I don’t do a lot of fine dining. Because I can’t really afford it and because many aspects of it turn me off. Not the least of which being the sort of elitism and classism that are expressed though dress codes.
Excellent point. The proprietor’s responsibility is creating and executing a business plan that serves the owners’ investment objectives. Customers sometimes have to decide whether their wardrobes or the restaurant’s cuisine determines where they eat. While customers often believe they should always be right, it’s not their livelihood that’s on the line.
3 Likes
Harters
(John Hartley - a culinary patriot eating & cooking in Northwest England)
24
They are, to my mind, categorically wrong in that belief.
We dine at any restaurant, or drink in any bar, at the owners pleasure (subject to compliance with any anti-discrimination law).
If I had the resources I would love to keep going back with the most casual outfit possible to see what gets me booted and what doesn’t. I mean unless it’s a prepay system, it’s their loss if they take my res and don’t seat me.
Maybe it’s just me, but food doesn’t taste as good to me when I’m in a suit and tie. Having said that, many of the best meals of my life have been at Michelin suit n tie restaurants.
Well tourists can quite easily reflect the local style - Stan Smith’s are very fashionable - although you need to be careful to get the right coloured stripes…!
I did eat at Taillevent about ten years ago and didn’t think they had that strict a dress code - I definitely didn’t wear a tie and there were men with no jackets. Now La Tour d’Argent did have the wardrobe and I had quite an uncomfortable meal in a borrowed jacket and tie…!
It would be good not to need them but it seems lots of people seem to have lost their respect for others i.e. booking multiple tables then choosing and not cancelling; talking loudly on mobiles in inappropriate places; etc etc.
I always think that its good to dress for the occasion and location. If I am invited to a wedding, christening, or funeral I will dress accordingly. So I find it puzzling why people can’t dress decently to eat in nice places, and in some respects I think there is often a bit of a FU mentality. And interestingly I observe its often the men who don’t bother - its really common to see well women who have clearly taken a lot of care to dress stylishly accompanied by men who have made zero effort.
My read of dress codes in restaurants is that they are simply a signal to indicate what people should wear. I agree in places like country clubs it is a signal of elitism and classism - but I see that more as the imposition of a uniform rather than a dress code.
I dislike uniforms and love individual style. Dress codes don’t really bother me, because I enjoy wearing a sorts of different styles of clothing. Uniforms dictate a norm but a suit and tie can be just as radical in the wrong context as ripped jeans and t-shirts can be in Mar-a-lago.
I’m all for dressing appropriately for the occasion. I just don’t like having rules about it. As long as you have a shirt and shoes on, you can pay for the meal and you can behave yourself, I think you should be allowed anywhere.
Of course, I’m saying that as a Montrealer. In this city, people know how to dress and dress codes don’t exist except in the really stuffy places.
Perhaps they are allowing themselves the freedom to turn away people who are wearing jackets and ties, but no shirts, or – more thrillingly – no pants.
Absolutely. These are tribal customs. If the primitive tribe you’re visiting requires, say, a loincloth (a necktie, in some cultures, is referred to as the “loincloth of the neck”), that’s what you should wear.
Of course, you’re within your rights not to honor primitive customs, as Harters is doing, by simply not visiting. Not sure where “growing up” fits into all this (unless being grown up requires a lack of knowledge of tribal anthropology).
(Among the primitive dining rituals I’ve been to are “high table” dinners at colleges at Cambridge and Oxford. I was told there that it did not matter what you wore – I only had a red acrylic sweater and ordinary department-store jeans – because you’d be in robes. You could even be naked under those.)
2 Likes
Harters
(John Hartley - a culinary patriot eating & cooking in Northwest England)
36
Have to say, firstly, that I have no intention of growing up. Ever. I am Peter Pan (although it takes illegal drugs for me to think I can fly). Great insult for Pemma to casually toss into an otherwise sensible discussion. Something of the dead cat on the table, I thought. Full credit.
As for “primitive customs” relating to jacket wearing, society evolves. Which is obviously why Gavroche has changed its policy to reflect a modern society. I would struggle to think of a British restaurant which now has a “jacket required” policy (although I’m sure there must be the odd one). The most restrictive I can think of is Restaurant Gordon Ramsay which has “jackets preferred”. Most, of course, find themselves in the 21st century and have policies, if they have a policy, of some variant on the “smart casual”. I would suggest that jacket wearing in restaurants tends to fit into two categories, generally speaking - those who are dining in a business situation or are eating immediately after work (although I didnt wear a jacket for work in something like the last 15 years of government service) or are particularly elderly.
As for not honouring/honoring those primitive customs, fooddabbler, I’d have to disagree that I do this by not visiting. I am entirely content for restaurants to adopt whatever policy they choose. I am also absolutely content that they enforce those policies. It would be a “dishonour” if I tried to get seated dressed not in accord with the policy. But I don’t.
I am , of course, only talking about the UK here. My self imposed ban on archaic restaurants requiring jackets is always more of a limiting factor in America than in Europe.
Reflecting the elegant nature of the hotel’s architecture The Ritz London has a dress code in different areas of the hotel as follows: Gentlemen are required to wear a jacket and tie (jeans and sportswear are not permitted for either ladies or gentlemen) for afternoon tea in The Palm Court and for lunch and dinner in The Ritz Restaurant and Terrace. In all other areas of the hotel (The Ritz Restaurant breakfast service, The Rivoli Bar, The Long Gallery) and The Ritz Club, smart casual attire is suitable. Please note that trainers and sportswear are not permitted in any of the hotel or Club’s restaurants or bars.
I, for one, appreciate a dress code. Appropriate behavior usually follows. This is usually necessary for the under-40 set.
4 Likes
Harters
(John Hartley - a culinary patriot eating & cooking in Northwest England)
40
I took up NotJr’s suggestion to get in touch with La Gavroche, asking if they could elaborate on the policy. Reply just received:
“Le Gavroche operates a smart casual dress code, gentlemen are not required to wear jackets and ties are optional. Smart jeans are permitted, provided they are presentable and not torn or ripped. Shorts and sportswear, including gym trainers, running shoes, hooded jackets, and baseball caps are strictly not permitted.”
Now, I reckon that’s an even more relaxed policy than the website suggests and, with the use of “smart casual” as a dress code, I know exactly what’s what. Good for Gavroche. I think I may see dinner there in my not too distant future - tasting menu is £160 inclusive of service, so reasonably priced for (a) London and (b) a 2 star gaff.
By the by, we loved a recentish meal at Roux at Parliament Square. Head chef there is Steve Groves , a past winner of Masterchef - the Professionals. Always seemed to be a thoroughly nice bloke on the show and I’d wanted to eat his food for ages.
