Aha! I didn’t see that before, but now that you point it out I can see the gap (maybe 1 cm?) between the end of the handle and the heel of the knife. Definitely enough to make a difference in the pinch point and grip overall.
I noticed that my cutting was slower when I tried it tonight, but I thought it might be because I am new to the grip. I’m sure that played a role, but I’m glad to know that it is also a generally slower grip - makes me feel a little less awkward! 
You claim one to be the better teacher. I claim the other to be. For me, Marco, I can get more. It’s not just the undying love for Chef Panko; it’s the snide digs on Marco. Negativity doesn’t lift one up. I’ll watch his Kiwi review, though.
Just watched the review. I feel he stated the obvious. I prefer my soapstone for the Kiwis. He’s entitled to his opinion. Plays like a documentary, though. What did I get out of it? Stuff I already knew/ know. I obviously don’t buy Kiwi as a fashion statement, not because the blade’s the hardest. To the contrary. I like a blade I can sharpen now. Just the way I roll.
I watched it a few more times. Excellent knife skill. I also spotted that he was using a Mac (真久作) knife – in case anyone is interested.
MKS-105
Yes I knew it was a Mac. Awesome knives. I have a Mac Pro bread knife and it’s one of my most used and favourite knives at home.
Perhaps in due time I might get the gyuto as well though I really do not need another knife!
It’s still the same pissing contest with the same participants, none of which seem to be able to let go until someone has “won” the argument. Whatever the argument is or has become at this point. Although I guess “knife talk” is a wide enough catch-all title for what this is.
And that’s why I only occasionally stop by these ‘discussions,’ which seem to attract nothing but pedantry and one-upping one another.
Of course I have seen Ramsey hone. He is an idiotic showoff. However, he did pick up some knife skill along the way. Ever watched him filet a salmon or break down a chicken…or cut an onion? You clearly have an extreme outlier take as to and what White is, and I accept that you will not budge from that viewpoint. So, the definition of insanity being to keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result, I am hanging it up on this topic. Cheers.
You have better eyes than I do then. I had to watch the video a few times to catch it. Anyway, no that it will change your purchase. (Gyuto or Slicer) It looks like the knife he was using is a slicer, not a gyuto (the blade is narrow and the heel is short).
Lol - no truth be told I’m also somewhat active on kitchenknifeforums and I had seen this video there with someone else pointing out that it’s a Mac. I’m not that into knives as some of the others here (including you I think) - I typically spend more time thinking about what fresh produce I’d like to buy versus what cookware I’d want.
That is also because I already have a good collection, including a Masamoto KS slicer - which is also the reason why I’d want a Mac gyuto instead of a Mac slicer.
Oh, Dave Martell’s kitcheknifeform? I think the site is very slow there, right? Good. Good that you have an good Masamoto KS slicer.
I dunno. As someone who has worked the line, I feel this really underestimates how well even average commercial kitchens are equipped to prepare the food (and volume) within. Everything is there for one purpose. A home kitchen, and home cooking, is a totally different animal. My kitchen is fairly well equipped but I couldn’t do what I did in restaurant kitchens in there.
I agree in general. In a cooking school you can get solid lessons on knife technique, but working on a line, or even as a commis, you are compelled to develop an ability to generate perfect work extremely fast. You can use taught technique or develop your own, as long as it works. There were tons of things I could do in restaurant kitchens that just cannot be easily duplicated at home, but knife work can be duplicated with a large cutting board, a sharp knife, and a good technique. It always brings back the energy of a big (compared to home but still cramped with so many moving bodies) fast moving kitchen.
Claus, I was jolted upright when I read your penultimate paragraph and realized I am not alone! know that sounds melodramatic, but consider: when was the last time YOU read anything like that? For my, part, a stranger asked advice on knifery in general, and when it came to honing I sent him this:
Come we now to keeping sharp edges sharp. A.k.a., the final frontier: The tool required is the most neglected weapon in the armory, the steel or ‘butcher’s steel.’ As named it is made solely of steel mounted on a wooden or composition handle. It is not ceramic. It is not diamond-coated. It is steel, and VERY finely textured. The working end is 12” long minimum. A good one costs as much as a good knife. Pay $50 or so, and gladly. And try to buy in person. Lots of stuff sold online is coarse, poorly described, inadequate. Example: Recently I ordered a 12” steel from Wayfair, having noted with care the photograph. It showed a steel portion that was clearly 2.5 times as long as the handle (typically 5”). But what arrived had a steel portion only 1.5 times the length of the handle—in sort, a 7” steel with a 5” handle. Useless. Wayfair graciously took it back and paid return shipping-but did not change its ad.
How to do it? Here’s a good, slow-paced, no-showing-off, step-by-step video: https://www.google.com/search?q=using+a+butcher's+steel&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS1048US1048&oq=using+a+butcher's+steel&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30l3j0i390i650l2.5534j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:139b21c3,vid:UjoFKy8mbm0,st:38
Most people who take good care of their knives know about steels, a.k.a. butcher’s steels or honing rods. Usually round in section, sometimes oval, they are very lightly grooved lengths of steel up to 14” long and used to “re-set” or “refresh” or “align” or “straighten” (there is no fixed term) cutting edges the have grown lightly dull in use. It’s not sharpening: it’s a tune-up, as distinct from an overhaul.
I’ve used the same Zwilling-Henckels 14.5” steel for the past 40 years. It is not made any more, but you can, searching diligently, find a close simulacrum. I’ll never give mine up; it’ll have to be pried loose from my cold, dead hands, as it were.
That’s because short steels are inefficient, and those provided with knife sets are almost always crude and brutal to knives. Shun them.
You needn’t steel before or after every use—only when—being alert to your cutting—you detect the onset of dulling. Then 3-6 brisk strokes on either side of the blade and Bob’s your uncle.
I’ve recently concluded that steeling should be supplemented by stropping—what a barber does to a straight razor. In steeling, you bring the edge toward you. In stropping, you move away. I do this first on the steel itself, after normal steeling. Then I do it some more on an old leather belt.
Try the newspaper test. Slash a 2-page spread of the New York Times after steeling—it should be fine. Try again after stropping—should be just a tad finer. (I’ve convinced myself you can actually HEAR a difference.)
I first stropped after seeing an online hint about refreshing used razor blades by simply stroking them in reverse on a sleeve or pants leg. I tried it and it seemed to work. Seemed—the power of suggestion, like the Force, is strong! I couldn’t really be sure, and anyway forgot all about it, because I shave as seldom as possible.
Then came the epiphany: Two years ago I saw an old movie on TV— 1935’s “Lives of a Bengal Lancer”–in which one scene shows stropping to be one of the Lost Manly Arts and Skills, like cracking eggs one-handed or making cracked ice with a spoon. In that scene our hero, Gary Cooper, prepares to shave—and he strops his razor on the palm of his hand!
I have been stropping-after-steeling ever since, and am convinced that it works. You can pay tons for a Japanese (of course!) leather strop or you can use the leg of an old pair of jeans or an old coarse linen tale cloth. All will be fine. I’m using an old 40” leather belt, wiped down occasionally with neat’s-foot or mink oil.
In fairness, I must admit that I’m 82-years old and my household is down to two, so my knives rarely get a heavy workout. But I’ve had most of them for many much busier years, and none of them has ever once touched a stone. My main blade is a 8” Zwilling ProLine that is at least 12 years old. It has never seen a stone either—and it cuts like a dream.
You can of course go on to full-blown fanaticism, indulge in $300 water stones and $700 gyutos hand-forged by monks from armor-plate steel recovered from the wreck of the sunken superbattleship Yamato by the semi-nomadic ama-san, the collective of female free-divers of Japan’s Noto Peninsula and Hegura Island. Go ahead—knock yourself out. Just be sure it’s a choice you’re making, not something you’ve been talked into by online enthusiasts.
Salute, Claus.
Nice piece on honing and stropping. I learned it intuitively as a teenager, running my razor blade along the rim of the sink. A 14" sapphire F. dick is the steel I always recommend. I keep my half century plus old Thiers-Issard Jeune sharp with regular steeling. It is the ideal sharpness for kitchen work with just a hint of tooth. I may put on my jeans and try stropping, but why mess with perfection? I used to have an inherited leather strop for my also inherited straight razor. Straight razor maintenance is a PITA. I love DE blades!
Recently sold our big house and currently renting a small 1 bd room condo on the beach for 6 months. Packed more knives than I needed for the move and made sure I had something to hone with if needed. I tend to use one of my Japanese gyutos most often. Cutting Board and one good sharp knife is really all I need in most cases
Me too. I have more knives than I absolutely needed. For a couple of time when I move, I just bring one decent knife. In the long run, I do find having a thick cleaver type, and a small paring-petty knife to be most useful for me. Now, I know… most online recommendation for the three knives are: a Chef’s knife, a paring knife and a bread knife, but my lifestyle is different. I don’t eat hard crust bread very often. I have to say a bread knife won’t rank my top 5 knife styles – for me.
An extremely sharp chef’s knife can certainly slice crusty bread extremely well, likely with fewer crumbs.
Yeah. Also, for me… is that even if a Chef’s knife is not great. It can do the job. Whereas, I prefer not to use my main knife (chef’s knife or Santoku to Chinese sliver) to cut through small bones/joints, as that will quickly dull it, so I much prefer to have a thick cleaver to take on the tougher jobs.
Yeppers. I use poultry shears a lot.
